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Old 08-23-2001, 04:41 PM   #81
Redblueflare
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Join Date: May 9, 2001
Location: The backwoods in Georgia *sigh*
Age: 39
Posts: 2,151
Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
Sure one can feel pain in dreams.

Now don't reply with some bogus scientific argument about what pain is objectively, and therefore the sensation of pain in dreams is not "real" pain. That is missing the entire point.

The point is that the subjective experience, in a dream, of pain can seem completely real -- and thus it is possible that all of this "life" as we know it is but a dream.

As for Melusine's point about how real everything seems in this life and therefore it must be real, the answer is that I have had dreams that seemed completely real, and I only became aware that it was just a dream after I woke up and found myself lying in bed.

Subjective certainty is not proof. One can be subjectively certain even in a dream.
I see what you're saying. No one can be completely certain they exist. Still, you know the dreams where you have those life flashing before your eyes moments right? You wake up after them. I've had plenty and I still haven't waken up yet. I also doubt someone else's dream would bother to make my life so detailed. (All of our lives so detailed They'd be more focused on themselves wouldn't they?) I suppose that I can't prove I exist. Here's a question for you Dio, oh great philosopher that you are.Do you believe you exist?



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Old 08-23-2001, 10:51 PM   #82
Diogenes Of Pumpkintown
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Join Date: August 9, 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Redblueflare:
I see what you're saying. No one can be completely certain they exist. Still, you know the dreams where you have those life flashing before your eyes moments right? You wake up after them. I've had plenty and I still haven't waken up yet. I also doubt someone else's dream would bother to make my life so detailed. (All of our lives so detailed They'd be more focused on themselves wouldn't they?) I suppose that I can't prove I exist. Here's a question for you Dio, oh great philosopher that you are.Do you believe you exist?

[/B]
I am not saying that one can never be certain they exist. On the contary, I am certain of the fact of my existence. It is whether the rest of you exist that I doubt

Seriously, I know that I exist because of subjective perceptions, thoughts, feelings, etc. I am an awareness/consciousness at least, of that much I am quite certain.

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