If I was a powergamer...

[ister]

Yeah that's a decent powergamer party. I'm not surprised that the gnome is a great tank, but once the paladin starts getting access to the best clerical buffs. He'll come into his own then.

[Klorox]

An alternate to the party I posted above is to use a Fighter 13 > Mage instead of the Gnome, a Fighter 13> Thief instead of the FMT, a Fighter 13> Druid instead of the Fighter/Druid, and a Fighter 13> Cleric instead of the Cleric/Ranger.

But you'll really want at least some divine magic early on.

[Aerich]

Honestly, a party going to HoF will prefer multiclasses instead of dual classes - unless of course you prefer a lvl 13 or so fighter with 5 PP over a lvl 30 fighter with 2 PP but more weapons. If you start in HoF the dual class isn't even really an option because you need all the help you can muster over the first few levels, and carrying one or more "passengers" in later stages would not be easy.

In theory you could make a lvl 29/30 dual class, but you'd have so little time with both classes active, it wouldn't be worth it.

[wanderon]

Indeed dual classing really works best when you have limited levels - like for BG1 alone where you can stop at level 6 and dual otherwise you end up playing half the game as one class and most of the rest as the second class trying to get your first class ability back...

My first IWD party was

Paladin
Dwarf fighter
fighter 3 druid X
Ranger 6 Cleric X
Halfling Thief
Gnome Illusionist

Its the only party I finished the game with (with both HoW and ToTL) and I almost immediately regretted dualing the fighter/druid at level 3 but felt I needed some healing power going into Dragons Arse. The party worked out fine with my DCs being mostly priests with better weapon profs but in hindsight I think the MCs are much better than DCs unless you just want a few levels for special perks like 3-6 levels of fighter for a mage to use helms and shields and better weapons.

[Ultra Marine]

Is there anything wrong with a fighter3/druidx? I still prefer it compared to a mc f/d. Yeaaahhh, i lose the fighting skills but the summon spells are almost double given a limit of 4million odd in insane (i think). Not sure about HoF though and I might play it once I get some time off [img]smile.gif[/img]

I just kind of like this character.

[wanderon]

Theres nothing at all wrong with a fighter 3/Druid X you just won't be as strong in combat but you will gain more druid levels meaning more spells and earlier high level shapeshifts. As I recall in normal play though IWD/HoW/ToTL my characters finished up in the low or mid 20s altho those numbers might be considerably higher in "insane". I think if I was going to DC a fighter/druid tho I would go ahead and go for fighter 6 for the next weapon pip since its only another 28K exp (over level 3)and level 7 druid to get your fighter skills back is only 35K.

so eseentially by the time your paladin or ranger is just over level 7 your DC fighter/druid is 6/7...and by the time the pally is just getting over level 8 the DC fighter/druid is pushing F6/D10...

On the other side of the fence when your pally or ranger makes level 10 (600K)an MC fighter/druid is 9/12 and the DC is either F3/druid 12 or F6/druid 12. At this stage of the game the MC is obviously better.

When the pally or ranger is level 15 (2100K) the MC is F12/D13 and the DCs are F3/Druid16 or F6/druid 15. Now you start to see the druid levels of the DC pulling ahead a bit but this does also sacrifice the power of the fighter levels.

When the pally or ranger makes level 20 (3,600K)
the MC is F15/Druid 15 and the DCs are F3/druid 22 (4k from 23) and F6/Druid 22 (36K from 23). So as you can see those extra 3 fighter levels between 3 and 6 really don't mean much to how far your druid levels would go up with or without them.

In the end if its more druid you want the DC with 3 or 6 fighter levels is a pretty decent choice and the ability to use all shields and helms rather than bucklers and no helm as well as the weapon pips make it better than the straight druid.

[Aerich]

As this discussion was originally about a power party intending to go (eventually) through HoF, I would point out that a low level F/D dual class is really a bad option. The druid side would max out well before the end of HoF (in Dragon's Eye would be my bet), leaving you with a F[3, 6, or 7]/Dr[30]. In HoF, the only real way for such a character to contribute is through spellcasting - the Thaco would be insufficient to contribute more than the occasional hit on high level HoF monsters. A HoF party, in particular, needs most of its characters to have maximum weapons potential to finish off enemies already hurt by spells.

A further consideration is that a druid is an optimum character with which to achieve perfect slashing resistance - the Bone Marrow Belt gives 50% slashing resistance but cannot be used by good characters, and a shapeshift to water elemental provides further resistance. Do you really want this character to be immune to melee attacks and yet almost unable to hit enemies in melee? Seems like a waste to me. If playing on a decent difficulty level, the mc F/D will achieve the water elemental shapeshift soon enough.

[Klorox]

Originally posted by Aerich: Honestly, a party going to HoF will prefer multiclasses instead of dual classes - unless of course you prefer a lvl 13 or so fighter with 5 PP over a lvl 30 fighter with 2 PP but more weapons. If you start in HoF the dual class isn't even really an option because you need all the help you can muster over the first few levels, and carrying one or more "passengers" in later stages would not be easy.

I think both of your points are debatable. The 5 PP is really, really powerful, and if you're only dualclassing 1 or 2 characters (especially if you dualclass them at different times), the turnaround time isn't so bad. You also don't need a Mage early on, nor do you need a Thief, so you might be better off this way.

I'd like to restate my UPP:

Paladin
Fighter 9>Thief
Fighter 13>Mage
Cleric/Ranger
Fighter/Druid
Bard

I'd even consider adding the Bard a little later on, since he advances so quickly and the others advance slower. Actually, I think I'd add the Bard at the very end of the Prologue, and have him complete the quest with the Nymph for maximum XP. If you're being super Powergamey, start without the Paladin in HOF mode, and set the party to attack those bugs in the basement. They can't hit your guys if you use quarterstaves, and I'd just set one on each of them and go get some coffee, you'll be there a while.

[wanderon]

@Aerich...ReC F/D...

Yes I agree the DC F/D is a poor choice if you plan to do HoF - I was speaking of a normal run through above.

@ Klorox...re 5PP

I've personally never been all that excited about weapon profs in any IE game but thats probably becuase I tend to leave my choice of weapon for any character at any particular time up to whatever the best at hand may be rather than make a solid choice A character will use axes and B character great swords and C character such and such. Part of that probably just procrastination and part of it is becuase I can never recall what the best weapons were are part of it is just becuase I'm too cheap to buy good weapons and prefer to use the stuff I find...

[Ultra Marine]

At 3600k exp
MC F15/D15 gets quantity of spells 6/6/6/6/4/2/1
DC F6/D22 gets quantity of spells 9/9/9/9/9/6/3

Besides getting spell levels earlier, don't the quantity of LVL 4,5,6,7 spells make a difference in ease of play? It gives me more bears and shamblers.