Yorick?

[Reeka]

I started to not post anything here, but decided to do so, because you seem to keep coming back to the first chapter of the gospel of John. I have studied and do read ancient Greek. During my studies a great deal of time was devoted to this particular passage. The word "logos" is a very complex word in Greek and actually does not translate well with any one word. In fact, some Greek dictionaries devote pages to defining this one simple word. It is rather more of a concept which only understanding the complete definition acurately conveys. If you would find it helpful, I would be happy to drag out my Greek dictionary and share the information with you and post it here; or Yorrick, I would be happy to e-mail it to you. I personally found it quite fascinating and enlarging of my view of that passage. Yorrick, I also read Hebrew and will be happy to look up rhema as well (in the back of my mind I am thinking that it was a more complex term than it is simply defined as is). I have biblical texts for both testaments in the original languages.

This comes under the category of for what it's worth if anyone is interested, I am volunteering to help if I can. I actually studied these languages because in studying other languages I realized how much is lost in even the best translations. I wanted to be in a position so that I could read the scriptures for myself in the original languages and decide for myself what they mean. I, however, do not purport to be an expert by any means; this was something I did for my personal benefit.

Let me know by post, or maybe even e-mail would be better. And y'all are doing a great job of disagreeing without being disagreeable.

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Order of the Holy Flame
Member of Clan HADB

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Reeka: I started to not post anything here, but decided to do so, because you seem to keep coming back to the first chapter of the gospel of John. I have studied and do read ancient Greek. During my studies a great deal of time was devoted to this particular passage. The word "logos" is a very complex word in Greek and actually does not translate well with any one word. In fact, some Greek dictionaries devote pages to defining this one simple word. It is rather more of a concept which only understanding the complete definition acurately conveys. If you would find it helpful, I would be happy to drag out my Greek dictionary and share the information with you and post it here; or Yorrick, I would be happy to e-mail it to you. I personally found it quite fascinating and enlarging of my view of that passage. Yorrick, I also read Hebrew and will be happy to look up rhema as well (in the back of my mind I am thinking that it was a more complex term than it is simply defined as is). I have biblical texts for both testaments in the original languages. This comes under the category of for what it's worth if anyone is interested, I am volunteering to help if I can. I actually studied these languages because in studying other languages I realized how much is lost in even the best translations. I wanted to be in a position so that I could read the scriptures for myself in the original languages and decide for myself what they mean. I, however, do not purport to be an expert by any means; this was something I did for my personal benefit. Let me know by post, or maybe even e-mail would be better. And y'all are doing a great job of disagreeing without being disagreeable.

Please do, Reeka! My own knowledge of koine Greek is VERY limited, since I was too lazy to learn it! Modern or Classical Greek is of no use at all, so Greek friends are not much help! And my knowledge of ancient Hebrew and Aramaic is even scantier - I rely on dictionaries, which, as you know, are terribly limited when trying to comprehend even uncomplicated texts! Your input on this would be very welcome 'cos I like facts! I hate being wrong as well, lol! But if it turns out I am, I will accept it with total lack of grace and sulk like fury!
I will e-mail this as well, if your e-mail is available.

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[Reeka]

I got the e-mail, too, thanks. I will try to dig out my Greek dictionary and post the definition of "logos." And as I said, if I can help otherwise I would be more than happy to do so.

And thanks, for letting me contribute in a small way to this discussion.

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Order of the Holy Flame
Member of Clan HADB

Hmmm.... Scratch the surface of gamers and what do you find? Theologists, scholars, debaters, linguists... some very thought-provoking stuff in this thread, and all presented very well without any rancor or pedantry.
Although I haven't got much to contribute myself, I have very much enjoyed following this thread. I've recommended this thread to some fellow pagans who have a hard time discussing religious matters without getting overly passionate. For what it's worth, you folks are giving Christians a good name in part of the local pagan community.

[Yorick]

Reeka, you are more than welcome to post such definitions and observation. My dearly loved father knows both Ancient Greek AND Ancient Hebrew. Though I haven't consulted him (yet) on this discussion it would be better for my self esteem if I didn't have to, and the info came from another forum member....... (The self esteem bit is a joke BTW. The bit about welcome postings is very serious however.)

Reeka I am four hours north of you sister.

Thanks Absynthe.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Reeka]

I will dig out the dictionary ASAP. Just settling in from getting back from vacation. Yorrick, I didn't know you were already here. Is there a number where I could reach you? Please e-mail me and let me know. Reeka@tgeweb.com. I'll be back at work Monday, you have the number if you want to call me there.

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Order of the Holy Flame
Member of Clan HADB

[Reeka]

Ok, guys I looked it up and it was pretty much as I remembered. Went on forever with examples and what not. With your permission I shall condense it down here (hope, you guys trust me).

The noun logos comes from the verb logo to speak or say. Is used in a vast variety of situations and meanings and I shall relay those to you and I believe you will get an overall sense of the meaning of the word. I would like to point out that our word "logic" is derived from "logos".

Logos is used for mathematical computations, reckoning of monetary accounts. It is a legal term for pleading a case. It is used for reason and logical thought. It means thought but only in the sense of logical and rational thought. It is used for the written word in the sense of literature and plays. It really never expresses anything that is not rational, logical, and well thought out.

Synonyms: Reason (as in being reasonable), rational thought, logic.

It is a word that denotes structure and planning, as far as the written word goes "planned written works" i.e., literature and plays.

If this does not give you a sense of the word, I will try to expand upon it some more.

There is nothing "touchy-feely", "emotional" in the way this word is used in Greek.

Hope this helps. If there is anything else, please let me know.

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Order of the Holy Flame
Member of Clan HADB

[Fljotsdale]

Thanks, Reeka! That is very useful! Much appreciated.

So, Leonidas, John D and Yorick - you are ganging up on me, huh?
Guess I'm gonna have to play dirty and start quoting 'authorities' since the scriptures don't cut it for you, lol! I'm in the throes of lookin' stuff up - I'll get back to ya!

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[Leonidas]

I most certainly do not intend to 'gang up' on you, Fljotsdale, nor feel pressured. I was just passing through, and it seemed to me that there was a small but vital inconsistency in your arguments. But I have two more questions:

Does God the Father have knees? Does He have a tongue?

And yes, I am seriously asking. BTW, say the word, and I will butt out on this thread, or continue by e-mail. I really don't want you feeling that you are backed into a corner.

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Be careful! I think it's a tr...

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Leonidas: I most certainly do not intend to 'gang up' on you, Fljotsdale, nor feel pressured. I was just passing through, and it seemed to me that there was a small but vital inconsistency in your arguments. But I have two more questions: Does God the Father have knees? Does He have a tongue? And yes, I am seriously asking. BTW, say the word, and I will butt out on this thread, or continue by e-mail. I really don't want you feeling that you are backed into a corner.

Leonidas, I was joking! Please don't but out - I enjoy debate! I will post longer reply to points later. I am having difficulty getting onto this board and posting stuff - VERY frustrating. I have just found a 'window' - I hope! - but have not completed my replies. Watch this space!


As for the knees and tongue - figuratively, yes! Literally? Who knows? (clicks on 'find traps'

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[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 07-07-2001).]