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Old 04-19-2002, 04:08 PM   #31
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:
quote:
Originally posted by dizzy:
Im a christian and believe in the creation but its a matter of faith
evololution hasnt been proved true thats why its still called a theory
yet you have to have blind faith in the Bible as well, There are Christian scientists as well who have come up with every bit as much prof of the creation as evolotionary scientists
watch some videos by dr Ken Ham
Evolution is a theory, and so is creationism. You can't prove either absolutely. As for proving the existence of god, I'm sorry, books written by humans just don't do it for me. You say they are 'inspired' by god, but can you prove it? [img]smile.gif[/img]

PS. No problems with the god theory as such. Whatever bakes your cake.

I personally don't go with the idea of a creator 'being' as such, separate from the creation though. I believe that the 'entity' commonly known as god, goddess, allah or whatever encompasses all there is, including me, including you. Including all life, wherever, and however.

That makes me divine, and you too. And if more of us thought this way, and lived as though it were true, maybe we'd be ripping each other apart a little less. Doesn't seem to me that a belief in 'god' has accomplished that much, so far. When sacred is located somewhere up in the heavens, rather than than in global humankind, - well, you've got problems, in my view. Time we evolved some beliefs that might actually serve us.
[/QUOTE]Hmm. What have we here? Some words on a page. I suppose they just plopped here on my screen. Spontaneously.

I don't need a book by anyone to tell me there's a God. I just need a leaf. Or a hand. Or a human brain. Or my emotions. Or music. Or a sunset. Or a baby possum. Or a human baby. Or a bamboo shoot. Or a human eye.

As a creative who merely attempts to reflect that which is created, I see a creators genius everywhere I look.

The odds of a speck of dust spontaneously becoming life, in a warm pond, purely by chance strikes me as unlikely in the extreme. The odds of it happening are apparently the same as a person winning the lottery 200 times in a row. (20 kazillion to one) Something that is a theoretical possiblity, but which if it occurred would be presumed to have SOMEONE BEHIND IT, manipulating the outcome.

As far as evolution goes, I think it's obvious that there is evolution within a species. Ala dog/horse breeding, humans getting larger etc.

However as has been pointed out, we've never seen reproducable MUTATIONS. The like of which allegedly occur enough to get us from single cell amoeba to human.

Yet even the mule, a cross between a donkey and a horse, will not reproduce.

Creationism isn't necessary for my belief in God, but my worldview is based on logic. Creationism is a consistent theory that has remained unchanged for thousands of years. A creator created the world. (some say in seven periods/epochs/days whatever)

Evolutionism keeps shifting, and is reliant on too many variables. Variables like how old the earth is. Young or old doesn't matter to creationism. Evolutionism needs an old world, yet this does not appear to be the case (not enough moon dust quantities etc)

Additionally, many of the pseudo-humans created from skeletons are built from one or two bones.

Like they do with dinosaurs. I have no doubt dinosaurs existed, but when scientist create a whole being out of a single wingbone like they did recently, the credibility goes out the window in my book.

Put simply, there is not enough hard evidence to prove evolution as an alternative to creationism, so I go with the theory with the least holes.

[ 04-19-2002, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 04-19-2002, 05:02 PM   #32
Azred
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Join Date: March 13, 2001
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Age: 54
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Occam's Razor strikes again. *swish*

See? I told you creationism already had the answer. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]
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Old 04-19-2002, 05:09 PM   #33
Epona
Zartan
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: London, England
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Posts: 5,164
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
The fact that our wisdom teeth are disappearing is fascinating though. I personally only had three and thought that was weird.
I don't have any [img]tongue.gif[/img] - and it's not to do with my age, I'm 31 - I think if I was going to get them I would have done by now!
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Old 04-19-2002, 05:33 PM   #34
Ryanamur
Fzoul Chembryl
 

Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander:
[QB]
Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis:
[qb] There is also Newton's Theory of Gravitational Attraction, but of course no one disputes that.
Because it's called the LAW of gravity.
ROTFLMAO, Thanks Yorick, you've just been the sun shine in my day with this one [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 04-19-2002, 06:13 PM   #35
*\Conan/*
Red Dragon
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 62
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Hmm.. how about the 2 working together Majik? Nice pot stirring job btw

Very good answers thow! On both sides.

We are all "here and now" and wondering about if the ancester of humanity was Adam. Was he and all we see, and feel created or a progression of molecules formed into what we are now.

The Bible says that through Jesus all things "consist" and hold together. Science has proved an electrical attraction is the cause..??? We all know about the attraction theorys

Really thow, at the point the world is at right now does this matter? You do the best you can with what you have. Everyone has within them their own personal answer.

In the end I would hope that you all see that valuing love, peace, and life would prevail, not letting your hearts be hardened for any reason. Their is no law against these things and they will carry you through the tough times.
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Old 04-19-2002, 06:33 PM   #36
Krishach
Drow Warrior
 

Join Date: February 25, 2002
Location: Land of the free... ?
Age: 38
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
The odds of a speck of dust spontaneously becoming life, in a warm pond, purely by chance strikes me as unlikely in the extreme. The odds of it happening are apparently the same as a person winning the lottery 200 times in a row. (20 kazillion to one) Something that is a theoretical possiblity, but which if it occurred would be presumed to have SOMEONE BEHIND IT, manipulating the outcome.
The odds of some God that spontaneously decided to create Earth and creatures on it, as if by a whim, strikes me as unlikely in the extreme.

Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Creationism is a consistent theory that has remained unchanged for thousands of years.
Possibly because there's no way for people to gain more information on it besides having faith that there is a God there, whereas evolution is backed by scientific evidence that's tangible and shows that evolution probably does occur in the world.

In conclusion, to each their own. I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. If a one true almighty being does exist, well then, I'll find out when I die I guess. Who's to say we aren't just figments of a dream, that we aren't truly alive? It's possible. Perhaps extremely huge mortal humanoids created us as a play thing, that we are a mere speck in an acutally MUCH bigger world, and the humanoids have forgotten us under their bed. Personally, I don't worry about it, I have many other things to worry about, such as school, my job, my girlfriend, my hobbies. I just sit back and take each day as it comes.

Anyway, that's my [img]graemlins/twocents.gif[/img]

(This thread can't be heading in a good direction.)

[ 04-19-2002, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Krishach ]
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Old 04-19-2002, 06:38 PM   #37
MagiK
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by *\Conan/*:
Hmm.. how about the 2 working together Majik? Nice pot stirring job btw

Very good answers thow! On both sides.

We are all "here and now" and wondering about if the ancester of humanity was Adam. Was he and all we see, and feel created or a progression of molecules formed into what we are now.

The Bible says that through Jesus all things "consist" and hold together. Science has proved an electrical attraction is the cause..??? We all know about the attraction theorys

Really thow, at the point the world is at right now does this matter? You do the best you can with what you have. Everyone has within them their own personal answer.

In the end I would hope that you all see that valuing love, peace, and life would prevail, not letting your hearts be hardened for any reason. Their is no law against these things and they will carry you through the tough times.
The motives behind the thread are pure..I assure you [img]smile.gif[/img] No pot stirring intended, I just was curious how others were coping with the issue [img]smile.gif[/img] Some times I even hear things I think are superior to my own formulations [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 04-19-2002, 08:14 PM   #38
Alexander
Drow Warrior
 

Join Date: April 16, 2002
Location: Connecticut
Age: 40
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander:
We didn't evolve from apes - Darwin's whole idea was that there was a "missing link", from which man and apes both evolved. Apes are not our ancestors, they are our cousins. And that's why they're still around.

Creationism has enough holes to put Swiss cheese to shame, so for now, I think I'll stick with evolution.
The problem with the "missing link" theory is that it is just that - MISSING. Despite Darwin's theory...no bona fide evidence has EVER been found of this "missing link". Scientists have discovered skeletal remains that pre-date and post-date the "link", but have never found any remains that could conclusevily be classified as the heralded "missing link"

AFA the "holes" in Creationism, please specify them. If there are so many,then it shouldn't be hard to list them.

The fact is, there is just as much documentation to support Creationism as there is Evolution...but since the documentation for Creationism is a religious text, then it is rejected out-of-hand.

For those who may not know (or can't tell), I belong to the "deeply religious" segment. Here is a link to a Christian website's answer to several questions concerning Evolution vs Creationism.

Evolution vs Creation
[/QUOTE]Well, belief in Creationism is started by taking the Bible literally - at its word. If it says "God created the world in 6 days", by Jove, he did it in 6 days, not 7 days, and certainly not millions of years.

Going by that "logic", if you take the Bible literally (as you would with Creationism), it lists the ages of certain people going all the way back to Adam. Add up the number of years these people lived, and according to the Bible, you should get an accurate age of the Earth.

The problem with this is that if you do that, you find that the Earth is about 4-5 thousand years old, give or take a few hundred years. Yet there is a plethora of evidence to indicate that it is much, much older than this (do the words "dinosaur" and "carbon-dating" come to mind?).

So, in order to avoid conflicting with known FACTS, one cannot take the Bible totally and absolutely literally. So, then, why should one take it totally and absolutely literally when it says that God created the world in 6 days, etc., etc.?
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Old 04-19-2002, 08:23 PM   #39
Alexander
Drow Warrior
 

Join Date: April 16, 2002
Location: Connecticut
Age: 40
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander:
[QB]
Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis:
[qb] There is also Newton's Theory of Gravitational Attraction, but of course no one disputes that.
Because it's called the LAW of gravity.
Officially, the title is "Newton's Theory of Gravitational Attraction". Just because something may be officially titled a "theory" does not mean that it can't be 100% true.
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Old 04-20-2002, 07:19 AM   #40
caleb
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

Join Date: April 10, 2001
Location: Tacoma, WA, U.S.A.
Age: 39
Posts: 2,615
Im not sold on either idea but I tend to go with evolution since science is at least trying to come up with answers instead of saying you must have faith and god works in mysterious ways.
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