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Old 01-28-2002, 05:53 AM   #41
Melusine
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Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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If I may be so bold, guys, gals, let's please keep this a discussion about preventing danger, not one about whether people should carry guns or not. I'd suggest starting a new thread for that.
It's a bit irrelevant to the discussion, we're trying to help women everywhere take care of themselves in dangerous situations, and we're not all Americans here, as some people tend to forget. There are a lot of women who wouldn't even WANT to carry a gun, we don't all live in New York or similar cities, and it's illegal in most countries. Also, like I said, making a lot of noise will scare away most attackers.

So Larry, like some of the others said, get Karen to carry a whistle or one of those anti-rape alarms if she loses her voice when frightened.

But as we can see from Cloudy's example, the whole trick of course is to PREVENT the attack altogether, by doing what she did (remain alert at all times, look the other person in the eyes, keeping an eye on what they're doing, keep near control panels in elevators, locking the door of your car from the inside, etc.).

Great post BTW, Scronan, you (or your teacher, rather [img]smile.gif[/img] ) are so very right! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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Old 01-28-2002, 07:10 AM   #42
Nachtrafe
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Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Age: 51
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quote:
Originally posted by Melusine:
If I may be so bold, guys, gals, let's please keep this a discussion about preventing danger, not one about whether people should carry guns or not. I'd suggest starting a new thread for that.
It's a bit irrelevant to the discussion, we're trying to help women everywhere take care of themselves in dangerous situations, and we're not all Americans here, as some people tend to forget. There are a lot of women who wouldn't even WANT to carry a gun, we don't all live in New York or similar cities, and it's illegal in most countries. Also, like I said, making a lot of noise will scare away most attackers.

So Larry, like some of the others said, get Karen to carry a whistle or one of those anti-rape alarms if she loses her voice when frightened.

But as we can see from Cloudy's example, the whole trick of course is to PREVENT the attack altogether, by doing what she did (remain alert at all times, look the other person in the eyes, keeping an eye on what they're doing, keep near control panels in elevators, locking the door of your car from the inside, etc.).

Great post BTW, Scronan, you (or your teacher, rather [img]smile.gif[/img] ) are so very right! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]



Just for the record, I personally wasn't advocating 'Guns of All'. I realize that in most other countries your govt's take a dim view of the average citizen being armed(a stupid view IMO, but you're right...another thread). I thought I made it clear that the option of handguns was a 'personal comfort level' thing. I'm a big fan of self defense myself. Any time I leave my house I go into 'alert mode' and am constantly aware of my surroundings. Its literally saved my life. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 01-28-2002, 07:56 AM   #43
Wulfere
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Join Date: March 20, 2001
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Age: 63
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Nachtrafeis absolutely right. Try to find a MA class that teachs the proper attitude. I have seen Ninjitsu classes where the students were not allowed to shout. When some new students did so the girls in the class literally ran away from the sparring match. One girl fell down.
That is not something you want to happen. The instructors don't allow any contact when sparring with the women. That is also not correct in my opinion.

What I suppose I am getting at is you need to watch several classes and study what they are doing before you join. Make sure you join a class that is going to teach you what to do as well as the proper mindset. Look for how the trainers exploit each individuals talents and for personal instructions to each student. The good teachers will stand out. Thats the class to join.

Glad you kept your head Cloudy. The best thing you did was look him in they eyes. Then look him up and down.
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Old 01-28-2002, 07:59 AM   #44
Cloudbringer
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Upstate NY USA
Posts: 19,737
quote:
Originally posted by Nachtrafe:


Yeppers, I agree. And, I've already volunteered to teach her some of the nastier forms of interpersonal mayhem when I move out there. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Nobody messes with my Cloudy!

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Nachtrafe ]



[img]graemlins/kissy2.gif[/img]

See, he showed up and I didn't even ask him yet! [img]smile.gif[/img]


Mel, THANKS, your last post is right, we ARE talking prevention and personal experience here. I don't mind the gun discussion as relevant but any debate on rights/laws etc regarding them should find a new thread. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cloudy
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Old 01-28-2002, 08:40 AM   #45
Epona
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: London, England
Age: 52
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Living in England, it is illegal to carry a gun or a knife with a blade longer than 3 inches, mace and pepper spray is illegal too, so bear in mind when you give out advice to carry a gun or arm yourself that it doesn't apply to all of us!

OK, so the whys and wherefores are for a different discussion, true, but I felt that pointing out that fact was relevant to this thread, since I have to rely on my lungs, screamers, and self defence.

I am going to relate something which happened to me, several years ago.

I was away on business, and to save on my expenses I booked a room in a small guesthouse because it was cheaper than a hotel with a reception desk etc. I had a few drinks with my work colleagues, went back to my guesthouse alone, and went to sleep. I had the most horrendous dream. There was demonic whispering, and in my dream was one of my friends who kept saying to me 'you have to fight, be ready'. I woke up in a cold sweat, to a room that was pitch dark.

I lay in the bed, calming down from my bad dream. My eyes started to adjust to the darkness - and I realised that I was looking up into a man's face. There was a man standing beside my bed I froze, absolutely rigid with fear - I couldn't even think. It didn't help that I usually sleep naked, I felt very exposed. He started to climb onto the bed. At that moment, realising what was about to happen, my fear was broken. I grabbed for the bedside lamp (figuring I could either turn it on or bash him with it) and started to scream my lungs out. The man fled. I was hoarse for 3 days, and it took me maybe 3 years to be able to sleep with the lights off. I still check that I locked the door at least 10 times before I go to bed at night.


There are a few pointers that I have learned about from this:

Trust your instincts: If a situation feels wrong, it probably *is* wrong. My dream was a warning to me, even while asleep I could sense that all was not well.

Lock your doors, and fit secure locks: Seems obvious, doesn't it? Well it wasn't to me that night, the door was locked, but the catch on the frame was loose. After that I bought a device which can be used to lock a door from the inside - it can be easily knocked away in the event of fire.

Carry an umbrella: Sounds daft, but attackers are looking for people with no defense - just holding a brolly will make an opportunist think twice and look for an easier target.

Be aware: Don't use a personal stereo - music is nice, but you can't hear footsteps behind you.

Carry an alarm: a good deterrent

If attacked:
Go for vulnerable areas - the eyes, throat and groin. Use your thumb to jab in the eyes, the tips of your fingers with your hand held rigid to 'stab' at the adams apple, and bring your fist up into the groin. Stamp on feet, but don't try to knee your attacker in the groin - having one foot off the ground makes you vulnerable and unbalanced. Scream as loudly as you can - yelling 'FIRE' is better because it will attract an eager audience, whereas not everyone is brave enough to get involved in a personal attack.
Another good place to go for is the muscle on the underarm between armpit and elbow - just grab, pinch and twist. If you don't believe me, just pinch yourself in that area - it is very tender.

Cloudy, I'm glad you're OK. Very scary.
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Old 01-28-2002, 09:12 AM   #46
nick1979
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Join Date: April 11, 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN, USA
Age: 45
Posts: 333
I'm sorry that not everyone can't carry a gun. I felt that what people were asking for was ways to protect yourself. I know it is not legal in all places, but I can only speak from personal experience. So I say carry a gun! If you cant do so then use some of the other methods of personal protection.

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: nick1979 ]

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Old 01-28-2002, 09:13 AM   #47
Melusine
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Join Date: January 8, 2001
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Ohh Epona, how terrible that must have been! I can imagine you get paralysed with fear in such a situation...

Those were some very good tips, thanks!
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Old 01-28-2002, 10:30 AM   #48
*\Conan/*
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 1,512
Cloudy, I am very glad you are safe. You thought very fast and made some quick actions! Good thinking! Preperations in your past may have prevented something bad there.
Epona, that must have been a terrible night. It sounds like it changed your life greatly. Thank you all for the excellent list of things to contemplate to keep in action all the time.
Not enough can be said for everyones experiences and precautions they have written here. Lately over the last couple weeks I have been running around my house checking for safety issues. This was brought on from taking my dog out to pee and coming face to face with a huge man in my back yard. It was 10:30 pm.. My security light was burned out and it was pitch black...my dog didnt even notice until he slipped around the fence corner. My heart dropped and it happened so quick. I wasnt ready thats for sure.
I didnt tell Regina but she has sensed something different in me. I am going to add these items you all have written here to my home lecture plan. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Thank you all for being real here. It might just make a huge difference down the line for someone.
Mindset, preperation, and forethought seems to be the best plan of action you guys..but I am all for arming yourselves with something also. Keep in mind thow you dont want to give an attacker a device he can turn on you. If you do purchase a gun be sure to take classes and go to the firing range to get oriented with the feel. Thank you again ..
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Old 01-28-2002, 12:16 PM   #49
Scronan
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Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 315
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What she said. Awesome post Scronan.

Hi Nachtrafe

Sounds like you have lived to tale the tales as well, thank you for sharing your experiences. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have always felt awareness is the most important aspect to train, next to your body. People sometimes think I'm crazy when they ask what moves will do this or that, and I say "anything goes"! Heabutts, biting, gouging eyes, slamming someone into a concrete wall, when your life is in danger, ANYTHING can be a weapon! However being a Taoist I'm also a preserver of life, and I avoid combat unless absolutely necessary. Even then, if I could resolve the situtation without hurting anyone too bad or talking them out of it, that's my first and foremost goal. I'm a lover and a fighter, heh. [img]smile.gif[/img]

When I was in high school people used to joke around and try and tackle me from behind, my answer for that was to just back into the nearest wall and use my weight (250 pounds) to smash them a few times. That's just one example that worked in a small room, but when you go into "the mode", you don't think about what you are doing. Its even beyond instincts, you just REACT and take whatever action the situation requires.

The basic point is to call on our primal instincts, ever wonder why there are so many martial art systems based on animals? Their senses are naturally honed to a degree us humans can only hope to achieve. My family used to have a 10 pound cat that used take out dogs that weighed over 100 pounds (Dobermans and larger), one swipe with her claws into their nose and it was all over. If a little furry feline can be that brave, so can we! [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm not much for carrying firearms, but my dad was in Vietnam and taught me to shoot when I was pretty young. So while I do not carry guns, if I happen to have one, be it pistol, rifle or shotgun, I'm tend to hit what I'm shooting at.

Another thing I was thinking is that its very good to learn vital points to strike, but always remember to have a multitude of tricks up your sleeve. There are many people who can withstand a kick in the groin (myself for instance, it doesn't do much but make me angry, however the right amount of force there can kill if the paraneum is struck very hard).

The same goes for acupuncture points. These vary according to many things, the time of day, the seasons, the health of the body and other factors. There are many points than can cause serious injury or death at certains times with the right amount of force, but only about 20 or so that can cause a fatality anytime. Even then, some people, be they martial artists or just naturally tough, this may not work depending on your skill level and their health and hardiness.

I used to work with a retired police Sargent who used to tell stories about how mace, pepper spray and tazers worked. He said with some people, they'd literally "get knocked into the air", go into convulsions or just pass out from any of these weapons. However, he said he'd seen quite a few "300 pound men on PCP" where even the most high voltage tazers or most potent sprays didn't do a thing but "make them pissed off ."

I'm not trying to scare anyone here, just sharing a little food for thought. That's why I always say, have LOTS of techniques you can call upon, not just two or three. But it only takes one move used properly in the right situation to work for you, and this may something different for everyone.

Great thread here, be smart and safe everyone! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Best

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Old 01-28-2002, 12:37 PM   #50
Sir Taliesin
Silver Dragon
 

Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 60
Posts: 1,641
Cloudy, I am glad your safe!!! I have someone that is very close to me that was raped as a teenager (date rape). I hope no one else I know ever has to go through that. It took her years to get over it and a lot of patience.

Most communities in the US have some sort of rape awareness and self defence course. I have and Amry friend here in Knoxville that teaches one. I personally wouldn't want to mess with her. After she torn his head off, she'd s*** down his neck. She is also a qualified firearms instructor and a competitive shooter. She is also a full time combat instructor for a federal agency near by. You can probably contact one of these classes through your local police department.

One thing about the firearms advice, for those of you in the states. Before you rush out and purchase a firearm, please ask yourself one question before buy it. Could I use this to take another persons life, if I had too? And be honest with yourself. If you answer "no", then don't buy it. It could be used against you in a bad situation.

If you answer "yes", then please after you buy it, go enroll in a class and for, petesake, learn how to use it. Don't just learn how to shoot one, but also learn all the laws concerning it's use.

And afterwards go to the range every so often. You wouldn't believe the people I know that have gone out and purchased a firearm and ammunition for self-defence and either fired it a little or not at all and put in a drawer somewhere. By doing that, you may just be endangering someone elses life other than the one that needs endangering.

To those of you in England and Oz, why is self-defense not a reason to hurt someone that was trying to HURT YOU in the first place? I'm sorry, but I don't understand that.
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