capitalism. free trade. comments, please

[tracey]

in what way are the two connected and how do they work on a kinda technical level?

i think they are the same thing by and large but would value some informed input as i'm a bit lacking in inormation on this topic (without trawling through loads of texts, something i don't have time for just now.)

cheers.

[Fljotsdale]

I think the most informed people are away at the moment, tracey: Diogenes, Silver Cheetah.... possibly Yorick as well. There are others as well, whose names I can't recall at the moment....


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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Djinn Raffo]

Well where i live there is this thing called NAFTA.

It is the North American Free Trade Agreement I believe. And Its members are Canada, U.S., and Mexico. I think that Chile and maybe Peru want in as well. But I dont know that much about it other than it seems to me to be the earliest stages of a new nation forming. Kinda like the EU. Maybe thats not how Nafta started but i see it as the initial step in the unification of North America.

As free trade enters into the picture...borders leave the picture.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: I think the most informed people are away at the moment, tracey: Diogenes, Silver Cheetah.... possibly Yorick as well. There are others as well, whose names I can't recall at the moment....

Fljotsdale: Interesting choice of 'most informed'

Tracey: Are you only asking what they are (i.e. definition), is this for school, activism...? I can answer this, but need to know what context to present it in!


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Moridin: Fljotsdale: Interesting choice of 'most informed' [/B]

Ah! Moridin! How COULD I have forgotten you?!

P.S. What ARE those fish thingies in your sig?
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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.



[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 10-01-2001).]

[Liliara]

I don't know about wiews on the subject, but Websters Dictionary defines them as this:

Capitalism: An economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations

Free Trade: Trade between diferent countries, free of governmental restrictions or duties. 2) International trade free from protective duties. 3) The system, priniples or maintenence of such trade.


Just wanted to put the definitions in!



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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[Liliara]

It would seem that there are similarities between free trade and capitolism but the diferences seem to be more politically oriented, in and how they are applied.

Capitolism seems to be economically based.
Free trade seems to refer more to international or interpersonal levels.

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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

I wonder about he term "Free Trade". Goverments regulate trade for both imports and exports by using tariffs and other taxes. They encourage trade with other countries by negotiating treaties that limit and/or regulate the fees. They protect home-based industry by charging higher import rates and setting quotas for import goods made nationally. Its a delicate balance between nations to come to fair agreements and almost always some industries might lose, just as some might gain. The term "Free Trade" seems like an oxymoron because ultimatly someones gonna pay. Some Trade agreemants like NAFTA or the European Union are huge, complex treaties that have sweeping effects on economies. Border access, cheaper tariffs, cheaper labor, export gaurantees, loan, and other considerations are all factors in negotiating large trade agreemants. The political factors come from the benificial/detrimental factors that effect the voting population.

Capitalism is gaining money with the intent of making more money, by trading things worth money, for money. Goverments utilize the same process with regards to finance. The services they provide in exchange for a fee, ie. taxes. Though not necessarliy profit-driven philosophically like a corporation, goverments depend on some sort of profit to grow with thier populations.

Industry and commerce, the private-sector drivers of economy, capitalism manifest, Are the forces behind international or national trade. Even if a goverment agrees to cut tariffs, open borders to labor and export, and give service grants nothing is for free. There are always concessions made by any given player that can boost a home industry or hurt one abroad. The key to calling it "free trade" and getting away with it is maximizing the benifit for the homeland without bringing back to much of the detrimental from the negotiating table.


Anyway, thats how I see the mechanisms for free trade in a capitalist economy. One makes it harder for the other to exist philosophically. A capitalist only gives something away with the intent of making a profit back somehow, to protect the bottom line and stay in business. I think only a few things are actually free in a "free trade agreement" but the trade-offs can be mutually benifical on the whole. I depends on the nature of the agreement and the players involved.


Why did I write so much???? Im soooo sweepy, *Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn* I hope Im not the only one I put to sleep.
Any other perspectives or facts, Im a high school drop out, not a business major. My thoughts are from a laymans veiwpoint.

[tracey]

thanks lil and G'kar. informative and 'chewy'.

moridin. it's for a political debate i'm having at the moment with my boyfriend. we kinda come from differing viewpoints on this issue. he thinks that capitalism per se is a workable system not really attatched to the concept of free trade and i think that are inextricably bound together in this day and age, anyway.

therefore, to have a deeper understanding of the machinations and working principles would be useful as argued from the point of view as a person living within a capitalist/free trade country but also the implications for a person living in perhaps a third world country/economy.

would be most appreciative of pointers on the above standpoints.

g'kar's comment that 'someone's gotta pay' would also be useful if explained in nuts and bolts terms within a capitalist environ.

thanking you in anticipation

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offended mistress of the illuminati

[Moridin]

Hi Tracey!

I think Lilliara’s definitions work well for defining capitalism and free trade

Capitalism: An economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations Free Trade: Trade between diferent countries, free of governmental restrictions or duties. 2) International trade free from protective duties. 3) The system, priniples or maintenence of such trade.

In the above definition of capitalism we have to highlight the word chiefly. Capitalism does not imply complete laissez-faire. There are parts of the economy in public ownership, and with degrees of regulation (health & safety, environment, enforcing competition). An interesting note to government intervention in private industry is that it is usually negative: the rules say what a person or corporation can not do, in other words they lay the outside parameters and allow a degree of laissez-faire inside those parameters.

A misconception of ‘free trade’ is that it really isn’t free, b/c as G’kar stated, someone is gonna pay. However, this misconception is b/c the term free is carried too far. It can only be applied to the term trade, not carried forward to the effects on domestic industry, private citizens, etc…the best way to look at ‘free trade’ is by using the term ‘unrestricted’ rather than ‘free’, this will dispell the notion that no one pays. Like the definition above states, free trade is merely the removal of restrictions like taxes, tariffs, and quotas.

he thinks that capitalism per se is a workable system not really attatched to the concept of free trade and i think that are inextricably bound together in this day and age, anyway.

I would have to agree with your boyfriend on this one
Capitalism and free trade are independent entities. A capitalist economy can (and has) function perfectly fine in a restricted trade environment. Likewise, free trade is not restricted to capitalist economies. Socialist, communist, or any other type of economic system can (and has) function with free trade in place.

A way to look at this is that capitalism is a means of production, and free trade is a means of distribution. The two are linked but not dependent on one another.

There are more points I would like to address but at a later time, as I am off to a meeting

Hope this helps a little!


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!