thieves

[MonksRule]

I am almost done with my first run through the game with my monk, and was planning on trying a thief for my second run. Just wondering what everyones favorite type of thief is. Right now i am leaning towards a swashbuckler.

[jabidas]

Swashbuckler is a goodclass especially for dueling later check out saemon the pirate but they dont get to backstab which is one of the best things a thief can do. The people who have played them and talked about them on the board say they are a lot of fun just dont expect it to be as powerful as your monk.

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[Cavern Sniffer]

Normal thief or m/c fighter thief. Personally I'm not too struck on the kits for the thieves as the trade off for one small advantage doesn't seem to justify the loss of another ability. A normal thief is a good PC but if you multi (not dual) with a fighter then he can stand his ground, particularly after a backstab attempt or after being detected by whatever means. Once you play one you'll do it again.

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It's bleedin dark down here, slippery too.
Man, that's a pisser.

[Robin, Thief of Hearts]

Yay! Another convert to the arts of Larceny!

Why not try a basic thief first? If you take a Swashbuckler, you'll miss out on the fine art of backstabbing! It's a great tactical art.
If you take the basic thief pattern, you'll advance with the special thief skills fastest.

Most people will tell you that the Hide-in-Shadows and Move-Silent are ones to develop to the maximum. Well don't be fooled. There are many many items that assist with this, and potions & rings of invisibility that make them quite redundant. Do the Thief Guild missions as soon as you can, to get the stronghold, and some cool basic magical equipment for your profession.

Picking locks and Finding Traps are critical skills. Find Trap is used to disarm traps, and is perhaps the MOST important of all skills, as NO ONE else can do this but a thief. A mage can Knock open any door, and even a dumb burly fighter can crash a lock open (with a strength potion).

Set Traps is a NASTY weapon, very useful for when you are going to camp, and unequalled as a fast killer.
I love to set a string of traps, sneak into an enemy position, do my backstab and then retreat along the trap line. Set traps in doorways - any narrow passage. Inside a dungeon, it can save you if your party has to retreat fast.
Bounty Hunter is a great Kit, giving some special "Throwable" traps.

Finally don't neglect the Detect Illusion skill. It can break down some powerful mage defenses.

Of all the Thief Kits, I found the Assassin kit to be the most disappointing, but I'm playing through now with an assassin to high levels to see if she can overcome the weaknesses of poor points and a low THAC0 eventually. Poisoning a set of arrows or darts can give a HUGE amount of damage to a Party's total firepower per round - 3 darts doing additional 12 points poison over time equals 36 extra points of damage. This works best against multiple opponents, but you'll have to pause and retarget frequently.
Not too shabby for darts eh?

[Nerull]

Originally posted by MonksRule: I am almost done with my first run through the game with my monk, and was planning on trying a thief for my second run. Just wondering what everyones favorite type of thief is. Right now i am leaning towards a swashbuckler.

What alignment will have for your character (and/or will lean towards with the group)?

Assassins are essentially backstab specialists (they get a higher backstab multiple than other thieves); their thieving abilities are reduced to the point that you pretty much need another thief to open locks and find/remove traps (after you jump up hide and move silently, there won't be many points left to put elsewhere). If you are of good alignment, just add Valygar the stalker (not quite as effective with backstabs, but comes with a katana that poisons the target, and can actually stay in toe-to-toe with the target after the backstab). Then just take another type of thief as your main character (and concentrate on Find/Remove Traps, Open Locks, Pick Pockets, and Set Traps, in that order; get each to 100%, then move to the next one, as you can raise them later with level ups and items). If neutral or evil, Jan is excellent at Find/Remove Traps, Open Locks, and Pick Pockets (both due to high scores and items he comes with that boost his thieving abilities). Assassins become more viable then, but a neutral party could just add Valygar and Jan both, and then you wouldn't need to be a thief at all. Thus, assassins work best with evil parties (who take Jan as the main picking/disarming thief, and the assassin concentrates on backstabbing).

Bounty Hunters are excellent thieves; many feel that they are the best thief kit. The reduction to their thieving abilities is not that great, and they have excellent traps (traps are great; the only drawback is that you must engage the enemy in some way before the trap kills them (fire an arrow, etc.) or you do not get the experience for the kill). If good aligned, add Valygar to do the backstabbing, then concentrate on the Big 4 (Find/Remove Traps, Open Locks, Pick Pockets, and Set Traps). If neutral or evil, add Jan to do the first 3 of the Big 4; concentrate on stealth and setting traps, and you will be the group's "demolition man," backstabbing the opponent then luring them over the traps. You will kill many tough opponents this way!

Swashbuckers are also good; however, I find that they work better when dual classed (especially to mage, giving them decent fighting abilities, thieving skills, and magic all in one package). The big problem with swashbucklers is the lack of a backstabbing multiple; this relegates them to concentrating on the Big 4 (and you will be good at them, since their thieving abilities have no reduction). In a good aligned party, just add Valygar to do the backstabbing, and you are all set. The same goes for a neutral party; you would never add Jan, since he specializes in the Big 4 himself. However, in an evil party, there would be no backstabbers in the group. Backstabbing is extremely useful against enemy mages (for a country that dislikes magic, there sure are a lot of mages around...), and the evil party would be without that. Thus, swashbucklers work best with good parties (and neutral ones, if you lose Jan).

Note: You can do the game without a backstabber. The main thing you need a thief for is to disarm traps and open locks. However, backstabbing is a useful ability, and it does help to have one in the party. Some people use them, others don't. It all depends on how you play.

Hope this helps!


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Death is only the beginning...

[Nerull]

Originally posted by Robin, Thief of Hearts: Of all the Thief Kits, I found the Assassin kit to be the most disappointing, but I'm playing through now with an assassin to high levels to see if she can overcome the weaknesses of poor points and a low THAC0 eventually. Poisoning a set of arrows or darts can give a HUGE amount of damage to a Party's total firepower per round - 3 darts doing additional 12 points poison over time equals 36 extra points of damage. This works best against multiple opponents, but you'll have to pause and retarget frequently. Not too shabby for darts eh?

Actually, go to Options, then Gameplay, then Autopause. Set the Autopause to play the game on a turn-by-turn basis. The game will pause after each turn, allowing you to spread the joy to as many opponents as possible.


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Death is only the beginning...

[TheDutkanator]

MAGE/THIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You get all the benefits of both. You can hide, backstab, then fight toe-to-toe without being hit via enchantments (stoneskin, blur, and mirror image come to mind). At higher levels, you can cast POWERFUL mage spells (I like cloud spells. eg. Cloudkill, Abi Dhalsim's Horrid Wilting, Death Fog, and Incendiary Cloud.) I've killed MANY foes using this tactic:
Hide
Find the enemy
Go out of range and set a row of traps
Get close, but not within site
Cast Area Effect spells (clouds, fireball, etc)
Hide right after the spell is cast but before it actually hits
If there are survivors, backstab, then retreat to your row of traps.

I've done nearly every quest in the game by myself (No other characters, no NPC's) and nothing has survived this tactic yet. Heck, I still have 30 some Extra Healing Potions and a like number of Healing Potions.

MAGE/THIEVES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Let's get'em guen!

"I'm sorry, did I kill you?" -TheDutkanator

[TheDutkanator]

P.S. Elves are my favorite because of higher dexterity allowance (effects armor class)
My Stats:
STR 18
DEX 19 or 20?
CON 17 or 18?
INT 18
WIS 9
CHA 4

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Let's get'em guen!

"I'm sorry, did I kill you?" -TheDutkanator

[Craig]

Elf assasin

[Cohobin]

Actually guys, i think the Ranger / stalker class is the best - a fighters thaco, and the tf. ability to backstab, and hide in shadows... i have 2 in my party and at 11th level they are housing all the drow, itthids, and mind flayers that i find in the underdark...