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Old 05-09-2002, 12:45 PM   #171
Cloudbringer
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MAGIK! It's time to PLAY! *gives MagiK a big hug* Z's moved on and maybe we should too! No hard feelings, we're all part of the IW clan! Hey, is your pic over at Stealthy's? [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 05-09-2002, 12:48 PM   #172
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cloudbringer:
Ironworks is a business? Not in my definition, it isn't. Sorry, Cerek, I disagree, but I guess that's part of the beauty of IW, we can agree to disagree. And we didn't even throw vegetables at each other!

BTW, we had a similar discussion about 'special titles' a long time ago and the consensus was that it would be 'elitist' and cause envy and discomfort.

But I think now is the time to figure out what we can do to raise the needed funds in a way that WON'T be divisive.. and if you saw the replies here then you know such a scheme would be controversial to say the least! I mean look at how strongly both sides reacted! [img]smile.gif[/img]

PS: Nobody 'threatened' to leave, Cerek. As best I am aware, they voiced their HONEST feelings about something that obviously bothered them a great deal. Frankly even if I did donate in such a fashion as to merit a 'special' avatar, I think I'd decline. You know, I'd think you would understand the notion of giving for the sake of giving and not for the attention.... All I know is that when I give to a cause it is for the cause and not to be noticed or get 'recognition', maybe it's my religious background, or maybe it's just a whole different way of looking at the world, who knows? Again, I will just agree that we disagree and try to find something fun to post to for a while!
Cloudy [img]smile.gif[/img] IW is as much a home and family as it is a business but as it stands Z (and his ISP owner friend) is footing the bills for
this family, Yes many of us contribute but not in the kind of continuous necessary way that will be needed if he starts to have to pay $200 to $500 a month for bandwidth.

As for threats of leaving..I saw several and one was from a moderator.

I do have a question though...Are RANKS and AVATARS linked?? Can there be Ranks that are independant of Avatars?
 
Old 05-09-2002, 12:48 PM   #173
Yorick
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Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
quote:
Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol:
A two-tiered system would DESTROY Ironworks. Can you see some of the teens asking thier parents for money to donate to a website so they could have a better "avatar"? Can you see someone having to explain to thier wife/husband they have to pay $10/month or even a year to be a "full" member. Thats why there are so many objections Cerek. Elitism sucks, we dont need it here. I dont mean this as a flame Cerek, just posting my postition on the issue
Im not saying you are wrong here....I just do not understand why it is called "elitism" to let people who are comitted financially to have personalized avatars?? They get no special powers or rights or access to special places....just a picture.

EDIT: Gratitude and /or appreciation would seem to apply more properly to me....
[/QUOTE]That's what I was getting at. How is it elitist? What's the big deal?

But whatever. I have no quarrel with either the Epster or the Intoxoboofhead [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]
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Old 05-09-2002, 12:54 PM   #174
Epona
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
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Magik, Yorick - this has been discussed over and over. I suggest we probably won't ever agree on it, but why don't we all leave it alone now, eh? No need starting it up again when it's just been resolved.

[ 05-09-2002, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Epona ]
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Old 05-09-2002, 12:59 PM   #175
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Epona:


If you look back on Ziroc's thread where he asked for donations originally, you will see a whole heap of people posting very sincere and genuine apologies because they couldn't donate. People who felt bad about it.

Excellent point. I still think Cerek didn't miss the point, I really feel that his point is being missed by those who are vehemently against the "special" Avatars.

I will be a loyal IW member, as long as I can afford to be, and as long as there is family here. I will contribue when I can or monthly if the option becomes available but I would not feel bad about being able to have a self designated Avatar as a perk for making a commitment on a regular monthly basis. Even people who do not donate could still have Ranks and Avatars, just not Unique ones...to me it is just petty jealousy to begrudge the people supporting the place you call home a small thing like that.

The comments about other places having kids (and the posts were about kids) who complained and whined about avatars and ranks at other sites...well Im not sure those "types" of people would be welcome here for long anyhow...I too have seen the kinds of people who inhabit other boards....and they are NOT the type of people we have here at IW. (with a few exceptions)

I don't envy Ziroc having to make the tough financial decisions, and you will note, that he said he will shut the place down before he does certain kinds of things...but he cannot afford to support all of us with out help. (who could?)
 
Old 05-09-2002, 01:01 PM   #176
Sazerac
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Agreed, Epona. Can everyone just drop it, please? *I* have. Wounds never heal if you keep picking the scab on them. As it is, it's a non-issue now.

-Saz
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Old 05-09-2002, 01:04 PM   #177
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Epona:
Magik, Yorick - this has been discussed over and over. I suggest we probably won't ever agree on it, but why don't we all leave it alone now, eh? No need starting it up again when it's just been resolved.
I didn't see that it had been resolved, and no-one had addressed what I was talking about. Sorry if I joined the conversation late, but I'm talking about a prevailing attitude that exists regardless of whether the issue existed or not.

[ 05-09-2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 05-09-2002, 01:06 PM   #178
Talthyr Malkaviel
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Join Date: August 31, 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

just not Unique ones...to me it is just petty jealousy to begrudge the people supporting the place you call home a small thing like that.
Or maybe those who can't donate don't mind them having a personal avatar, but every time they see a designer rank they will be reminded of how they can't donate, however much they wish to.
That's just how I think some people who can't afford to would feel about it.
Anyway, I'd personally much rather just have someone's genuine gratitude for donating, I wouldn't particularly want a designer rank even if I did pay.
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Old 05-09-2002, 01:10 PM   #179
Memnoch
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Join Date: February 28, 2001
Location: Boston/Sydney
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by Epona:
Magik, Yorick - this has been discussed over and over. I suggest we probably won't ever agree on it, but why don't we all leave it alone now, eh? No need starting it up again when it's just been resolved.
I didn't see that it had been resolved, and no-one had addressed what I was talking about. Sorry if I joined the conversation late, but I'm talking about a prevailing attitude that exists regardless of whether the issue existed or not.[/QUOTE]I guess it's a non-issue in the sense that Z has canned the idea of paying for special member ranks in any case.

I recommended it be canned as well (both here and on email) not only because I also think it can be interpreted by people as being elitist, but because the fact that a considerable number of people are against it means that it will never fly.

Who is right or wrong is irrelevant here, Yorick - what is relevant is public opinion is against it, and that makes the decision pretty simple in the end.

Since it's not a goer anyway, debating the pros and cons won't add much value - unless you're just out for a good stoush, mate. But now's probably not the time and place for it.

[ 05-09-2002, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]
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Old 05-09-2002, 01:10 PM   #180
Sazerac
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
I didn't see that it had been resolved, and no-one had addressed what I was talking about. Sorry if I joined the conversation late, but I'm talking about a prevailing attitude that exists regardless of whether the issue existed or not.
The issue with what to use as fundraisers had been resolved, Yorick. I don't think the other issue will EVER be resolved...we seem to be a house divided on this issue.

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