The Public Doesn't or don;t?????

[Larry_OHF]

I will settle this right now.
I am going to call two different English teachers and ask them.
I will report, soon.


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Member of the OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position)
Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
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Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: I will settle this right now. I am going to call two different English teachers and ask them. I will report, soon.

and

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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[Larry_OHF]

Public is widley recognized as a singular word.
Thus you get:

The public opinion...
The public bathroom...
The public does not...

Does not = doesn't



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Member of the OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position)
Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Silver Cheetah]

Well, I'm an English major too (if you think what I mean you think by that statement) and as far as I'm concerned, (but then I'm lacksadasical) you can use both, and people frequently do.

However, to be strictly correct, it should be 'the public doesn't' as public is a collective noun, and thus singular. (As is the forum, for example, or the crowd, etc etc. .)



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Ascended Mistress of Illumination

[Yorick]

I'll weigh in on the side of the public doesn't.

Unless you're rapping.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Father Bronze]

Official Grammarian here. Since I am an English teacher and have taught grammar for over 10 years, I figure I better jump in.

The problem isn't with "doesn't" and "don't" the problem (as accurately reported earlier) is with "the public." Subject-Verb agreement rules state that the subject must agree with the verb. Thus the verb form of "to do" must agree with the subject "public."

You would use doesn't with a singular (for example: Ryan doesn't agree with his English teacher). You would use don't with a plural (for example: The members of the forum don't agree).

Public falls into one of those strange categories called "collective nouns." Collective nouns can be either singular or plural (examples include: audience, team, group, committee, public, . . .). For purposes of subject-verb agreement, collective nouns can be considered either plural or singular -- depending on how the writer thinks of the sentence .

Consider the following phrase:
1)The public don't know the real election issues.
vs.
2)The public doesn't vote on this until next month.

The first sentence assumes that you are discussing the public as a collection of individuals -- a situation where each individual within the group happens to fall into fall into a collective group.

The second sentence assumes that you are discussing the public as a single group, taking a group action.

I figure this was a bit of overkill, but there you have it. In short, it depends on the context in which "public" is used.

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Most Subtle Official Straightman of the Laughing Hyenas -- Grammarian Brigade.

"The only medicine for suffering, crime, and all the other woes of mankind, is wisdom." -- Thomas Huxley

[Larry_OHF]

Edited, due to previous post...that was not there when I posted...
Why the hell can I not delete my own post?
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Member of the OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position)
Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[This message has been edited by Larry_OHF (edited 09-26-2001).]

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Edited, due to previous post...that was not there when I posted... Why the hell can I not delete my own post?

I don't know why Z changed this. It's been this way for maybe a week. Aggravating! *Please change it back, Ziroc*

And thank you for further expanding my knowledge of the English language Father Bronze! However, I still hold with using "doesn't" all the time for "public" because, in my neck of the woods, saying "the public don't" makes you sound like a back-woods, uneducated red-neck. (No offense to any educated red-necks at the forum today !)
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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[This message has been edited by DragonMage (edited 09-26-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: I'll weigh in on the side of the public doesn't. Unless you're rapping.

At last we agree on something, Yorick.

It's strange, I get the feeling about you that we have much in common in our world views, but it seems that we are more often at loggerheads on the forum.

Originally posted by Father Bronze: Official Grammarian here. Since I am an English teacher and have taught grammar for over 10 years, I figure I better jump in. The problem isn't with "doesn't" and "don't" the problem (as accurately reported earlier) is with "the public." Subject-Verb agreement rules state that the subject must agree with the verb. Thus the verb form of "to do" must agree with the subject "public." You would use doesn't with a singular (for example: Ryan doesn't agree with his English teacher). You would use don't with a plural (for example: The members of the forum don't agree). Public falls into one of those strange categories called "collective nouns." Collective nouns can be either singular or plural (examples include: audience, team, group, committee, public, . . .). For purposes of subject-verb agreement, collective nouns can be considered either plural or singular -- depending on how the writer thinks of the sentence . Consider the following phrase: 1)The public don't know the real election issues. vs. 2)The public doesn't vote on this until next month. The first sentence assumes that you are discussing the public as a collection of individuals -- a situation where each individual within the group happens to fall into fall into a collective group. The second sentence assumes that you are discussing the public as a single group, taking a group action. I figure this was a bit of overkill, but there you have it. In short, it depends on the context in which "public" is used.

okay this is a small piece of the Dutch School Exam of 1997 English
a story about interactive Shopping And i quote

"Retailers will re-learn an old lesson: consumers prefer shops that do not treat them like cattle. If ____10____ helps wipe out those who ignore that lesson it will be a dream come true."

10 []
-- A -- interactivity
-- B -- nostalgia
-- C -- Politocs
-- D -- The shopping public

I answered D and A appeares the answer, I'm ok with that but my teacher no claims "the shopping public helps" is impossible and she did that with a "haha i know stuff better then you do" kinda smile
so i love to prove her wrong


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I'm Watching you...