German & French Conscription

[RoSs_bg2_rox]

Was talking about this today, and thought it was a good topic for discussion. What do you think of the German/French conscript rule, you know the one which is still in place in Germany/France today? Where all males have to take a year in the army at some time under 25 (well I know thats the rule in Germany, however not sure about France).

Personally, to put it bluntly, I think it is a heap of crap. I mean its a waste of the majoritys lives, and to make it compulsory is way over the top in my opinion.

Also, have any of you Ironworkers actually experienced this? If so how did you feel, did you like it etc? Just give us some info.

[Timber Loftis]

I think if we had it in the USA, we'd have a much better calibre of citizenry. IMO, the best I've seen is the Swiss system, where every male is a member of the army for life and normally does service for a few weeks a year.

[RoSs_bg2_rox]

thats all fair and good, but what if you dont actually want to?

[Black Baron]

It is your country after all. For now France and Germany do not have to fight. It can change in the nearby future. Also a point that says "you have rights but you have also duties" needs to be considered. 1 year is not lots of time. Here we have 3 years and much more problematic service too.

[RoSs_bg2_rox]

what is it like? Maybe it just seems alien like to me because I live in the Uk where such as system is not employed, I suppose you have a right ot fight for your country and all, but doesnt it disctract you from your career? And I mean, if I was in a good paying job I wouldn't be too happy if I had to leave it to go and work in the army for a year.

Although to balance that I suppose it gives the country a lot more security, as it always has a trained army, and also some people might discover there career there. But ahwell.

[Timber Loftis]

you have rights but you have also duties

Certainly. Having freedom without duty inevitably leads to an irresponsibile, capricious, and spoiled society.

Ross, IMO doing things you don't WANT to do builds character. I don't WANT to be at work right now, for instance.

[Felix The Assassin]

Check your research there Ross. I left Europe not long ago, and recall German parliament dropping the draft run to 9 months. That allows enough time to train and equip the draftee, place him in a Kaserne, then return him to civilian life without a loss of skill impact. All the while keeping both lefties and righties feeling happy.

But to your post. The Swiss and Israeli system are good to an extent. However, my nephew was pulled from university studies to go back into uniform from last year Spring to this year Fall. I really don't see how his serving has done anything for the re-call or the 'strip'.

In our system, we are starting to recall IRR(Inactive Ready Reserve) guys back to active service. These are guys who have served and got out with time left on their 8 year contract. But not yet a draft as the Vietnam era saw.

It would do a lot to improve the "Fat, dumb and happy' society that my daughter is growing up in. It would make resposibility for one's actions have real meaning, along with building a sense of compatability and team work. However, as a 20+ year man, my view may be slightly tilted.

[Skunk]

Yes, but you don't have to spend your service time in the army - you can also spend it in a voluntary organisation. There are currently around 60,000 german men working in hospitals, caring for the elderly etc. in such a role.


As far as 'community service' option is concerned, I don't have a problem with such a system under those circumstances providing that it applies equally to both sexes (which it does NOT in Germany). It's just one extra 'year of education' afterall - and spending a year working with alcholics or drug abusers in some rehab centre or working with old folk (and giving back to the community) might give some people a real life education that they might not have had - but certainly needed.

In terms of military service though, I think it just plain daft. It used to have a purpose - but now its outdated. A modern army is small, fast, employs high tech weaponry and requires intensive training. The old of days of 'cannon fodder conscripts' is no longer applicable.

[ 05-20-2004, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[johnny]

Tell that to the Chinese.

[Felix The Assassin]

And the North Koreans.