So which is better Kensai/Mage or Monk?

[Crasso of Battledale]

In my browser doesn´t appear my last message, so i will repeat it (sorry if you have already read it:

Youre all right guys, a candlekeep child could have listened to some bizarre tales about kensais of the east, and have decided to become one of the.

About the hlaf orc, the love of gorion is great enough to adopt a poor member of that race.

[Robin, Thief of Hearts]

For what it's worth, I also find the use of Oriental stuff out of place in Midaeval fantasy to be out of place. Many things in D&D are eclectically tossed in - Vampires and Mummies really don't belong together in the same areas - the flavour is just wrong based on the backgrounds. One is very European, and the other is African/Egyptian. Rakshasas are Indian( from India, that is) and well, they just don't go with the Faerie elements like Dryads.

Kensai and Monk classes just seem too Japanese, and would fit in better in a different setting. Having characters specialise in weapons like Katanas and Longswords at the same time is ... incongrous. They're radically different.
Just because the weapons exist in the D&D universe does not mean that they should ALL be used all at once.
But it's just a game, not a work of literature. For fun, Monks are great.

[Altranan]

I completely understand your point about the katanas and that has been discussed in depth elsewhere, but your point about monsters and baddies solely having to come from one continent I find questionable. For example if you only wanted european creatures it'll leave you with a much abridged cast of baddies to kill. Leaving you with vampires and the odd Loch Ness monster thrown in, so for the sake of a bit of variation you need monsters of different lineages. This could be explained away by the fact that bodhi and irenicus are building an army of magical henchman and may well import their hired thugs.

[Kinslayer]

Originally posted by Crasso of Battledale: There is nothing wrong with the kensai, but i think he is very philosphical and oriental-looking warrior for a campaign in faerun. In Eastern parts of the forgotten realms he would fit much better. It seems an inexplicable profession for a child raised in candlekeep.

Why do monks have to be of oriental origin? There have been fighter monks on every continent of this planet(Friar Tuck from the Robin Hood tale being one of the most well known examples). it is only because of cinema and movies that people automatically link "monk" with "oriental". Also, within the forgotten realms novels themselves do we not have Danica Bonaduce from R A Salvatore's Cleric Quintet who is from the city of Westgate? As for monsters like Mummies and Vampires being totally unrelated does this mean Mummies should only be in forgotten realms games set in Egypt and Vampires only in ones set in Trannsylvania? Hang on, neither of those places are in the Forgotten Realms so maybe we should do away with those two monsters altogether!

[DonkeyWan]

I suppose the real problem with the monk class and what gives the whole character an oriental look is two things.

a] The appearance of the character, with the goatee, topknot and clothing.

b] The fact that the characters abilities are suspiciously like those of the Shaolin monks (stunning blow, quivering palm etc.)

I agree they seem out of place, not least because you rather suspect they should have spent years honing their abilities and then coming out and kicking butt. Also all other classes have a footing in D&D fantasy landscape, while monks (and I suppose Kensai) seem a tad out of place. Even the attempt to introduce Yoshimo jars with the overall medieval/fantasy landscape. BG & BG2 seem to have adopted some bizarre enemiesand so on, but overall I feel their well portrayed and blend in with the rest of the landscape. If your there for a true roleplaying experience, you may be disappointed (not enough fantastic creatures, too many similiarities among the vaguely human ones) but nonetheless it is an excellent game.

[Crasso of Battledale]

Originally posted by Kinslayer: Why do monks have to be of oriental origin? There have been fighter monks on every continent of this planet(Friar Tuck from the Robin Hood tale being one of the most well known examples

Do you really imagine friar Tuck kicking his enemies´ asses with spiral kicks and all the bruce lee movements?????

[Terence The Unspecial]

Originally posted by Crasso of Battledale: Do you really imagine friar Tuck kicking his enemies´ asses with spiral kicks and all the bruce lee movements?????

Im not sure if we are talking about reality or fantasy, but if you consult the actual historical record, you will find -- especially after the crusades, but even before that -- there was a great deal more travelling going on than you might suspect.

Especially if you get down towards the Med, you get all kinds of interesting folks running around, very early on. Don't forget the viking voyages of discovery, Portugese exploreres, Magellan, the silk road trading routes through central asia and the far east.

What that could possibly have to do with the ultimate profession of a child in Candlekeep, I have no idea, but it does argue for some -- perhaps small -- inclusion of eastern/pseudo asian (kara tur) elements in a western style campaign game.

If you then add the element of magic as liberally as it appears in this game, which could render travel safer, quicker etc, then it doesn't seem too crazy to have these Asian elements knocking around....

[TheBeerBaron02]

Ya maybe the forgotten realms is just a melting pot of cultures.

[floyd]

First, greetings to you all. Its good to be back, great the forums are back up

As for the original question, I believe Monks are probably the better character. I've said this before, but the way I see it, if you have a half-decent mage in your party (Edwin...), it is usually unnecessary to dual a Kensai to mage unless you cast MANY spells in battle. By the time ToB rolls around for the K/M, his melee skills will be withering (I know, thats my chars predicament), while he is gaining mage skills that are already covered well by Edwin. At this same time I would imagine that a Monk would be coming into his own, and totally owning all comers.

A more interesting debate would be just a plain Kensai vs. Monk.. I'm not sure, at lvl 20 both would be very powerful, off the top of my head I'd probably wager on the Kensai. The Kensai would be wielding powerful weapons and be receiving +6 dmg and +6 tohit, just as a class bonus at lvl 20, not considering strength bonuses. And a -5 to speed. Its a toss-up, they would both rock at high level.

Originally posted by Robin, Thief of Hearts: Monk classes just seem too Japanese

Sorry but this i find exstreamly offending.
Now I'm no a racist person
and i understand it's hard for some "western" people to be in depth of Oriental culture
but a monk is not Japenese per say.
Shaolin Monks are the best trained Fighters in the world with a knowlegde to kill people withj a single blow and this look to me to be the DnD monk
Now if you hear shaolin it doesn't sound japanese but Chinese for a simple reason they are Chinese and not japanese.

For another thing
Why can't a Monk travel to the far lands of Amn and the Sword Coast say on a trade jopurney to Waterkeep?
It happened in our history with the silkroad and all
so why isn't it possible in Fearun????
And even if it were not possible, does it really matter?
Isn't it a fantasy world?
Well this is my humble opinion
just think about it

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