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Old 09-15-2001, 01:49 AM   #191
Moridin
Fzoul Chembryl
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,735
Quote:
Originally posted by Liliara:
Have you even bothered to pay attention to the fact that almost the whole world is with us in this?

By the way, I'd be curious to know if you think we should play, say, hopscotch with terrorists just to keep them from getting MAD at us. Heaven forbid we tick anyone off, they may bomb us. Next time you piss someone off, or that you hate someone, will you bomb them too? If you do, is it justified? I'd hate to be your neighbor!





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Old 09-15-2001, 02:27 AM   #192
Sir Taliesin
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Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 60
Posts: 1,641
A couple of points here. First, about the fact that the US doesn't seem to care much about international news (I think this appeared a couple of pages back). For those of you not from the US, your very right that we don't pay as much attention to international events, as say, the British (I think that was the example used). But you have to remember that in a country as big as the US, we have so much news about what is going on here, that it tends to crowd out international events. If we watched news about everything that went on, that'd be all we watched. Personally, I feel local news is usually more important to me any way, has it tends to affect me more.

Now about our weapons being used against us. When one forms an alliance with someone else and give them arms and training, one tends not to expect said weapons to be used against one. Where's the honor in that. After all, without US and British help the Afgans would never have run the Soviets out. Those of you old enough too, remember what the world reaction was to the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. It was one of shock and horror. After all, what right did they have to do that. I guess we could not have helped them and instead just watch them die under the guns of the Soviets. That would have been the politcally correct way to handle it. We armed and trained them to fight the Soviets, an invader of their country. What did we get out of this? Nothing, except that they kept the USSR tied down and bloody for years, which kept them from spreading communism to other places around the globe. I can't think of another reason we might have been there, except to help them and keep the Soviets tore up.

Of course I'm sure Dio will find something. (Joke! Don't flame me Dio)

Someone also mentioned Somilia and how we were ther on a military mission. If you all recall we ORIGINALLY sent our military in on a humanitarin mission to help feed the starving (Sent by Bush SR.). It was felt at the time, that because the Warlords were keeping all the food, that the Army should be the ones to lead the effort. The warlords would be less inclined to try to take the food away from them as opposed to relief agencies. So we sent in out Army along with other countries. After Clinton came to power, the UN decided to play nation building (at the urging of the Clinton administration) and the Army was sent in to take out the Warlord, Idid (may not have spelled that right). Well that didn't quite work out has expected. The point is, we went in as a humanitarian effort, and later it got changed to a military one. It was also an operation that left a bad taste in most Americans's mouths. Most felt it was another reason not to get involved with the world's problems (I'm not one of those).

Dio, you do seem to be in the minority on the terrorist thing. I don't think your going to change many American's minds here, but keep trying. I for one admire persistance. Though I don't think, in this case, that it well pay off.

Quick question for you Dio. Being a prosecutor. Do we have enough evidence to get Bim Ladin to the Grand Jury yet?

Also on the lighter side (this is for John D., Dio (Didn't Ozzie have a guitar player by that name? You didn't like Ozzie Osbourne growing up did you? This might explain you choice in occuption. Kidding! Kidding! ), and any other of you SEC fans out there. Did you happen to notice when we (Tennessee) now play Florida this year? After Florida State!!! Last game of the regular season. We might have a shot at them!



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Old 09-15-2001, 03:29 AM   #193
Rikard
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Istaron:
Don't missunderstand me. I think it is a horrible thing what happened in washington. Thousands of lives, lives of innocent people, blown away... and for what? So the arabian people could laugh and dance on their streets? If that is the only thing that can make these people happy, they are wicked and doesn't deserve to live.

I think it is a tragedy, but have in mind... people get killed in bloody wars everyday. In many middle-east countries (israel) people are being raped and killed for being of a special nationality... don't forget them, remember that not just the americans are suffering right now.

The whole world is sad, except the middle-east, because it happened in america... would it really have started such a ruckus if this had happened in Estonia... no, I don't think so.
I think it is quite sad, that one nationality is more worth than another...

Well, now, let's send a thought to the people that have lost their lives in such horrible ways, and to the people suffering because of...

This Is not True
only a small persentige of the Palastinian people went out to celebrate
no otrher country had such horrible fests to "celebrate" the attacks

I think it's not fair to condem the whole of the Middel-east for what one not-truly existing country did



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Old 09-15-2001, 05:26 AM   #194
Donut
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Airstrip One
Age: 39
Posts: 5,571
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Taliesin:
A couple of points here. First, about the fact that the US doesn't seem to care much about international news (I think this appeared a couple of pages back). For those of you not from the US, your very right that we don't pay as much attention to international events, as say, the British (I think that was the example used). But you have to remember that in a country as big as the US, we have so much news about what is going on here, that it tends to crowd out international events. If we watched news about everything that went on, that'd be all we watched. Personally, I feel local news is usually more important to me any way, has it tends to affect me more.




Very succinctly put Sit T and exactly the point I was trying to make. It wasn't a criticism, merely an observation and if I gave anybody the impression that I don't care about the people who died from this terrorist attack I apologise.

It's Richmond by the way , been there.

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Old 09-15-2001, 05:47 AM   #195
Fljotsdale
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: March 12, 2001
Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England
Age: 87
Posts: 2,859
Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:

Well, it is true that I have been taking an uncompromising position regarding aspects and implications of the terrorist attack.

The reason is that I feel it is vitally important to draw the right conclusions from this terrible episode, and that I fear we won't.

The idea, held by many (perhaps most) of my countrymen, that this is a simple case of black and white, of good vs evil (to quote our president), of a totally innocent united states inexplicably attacked by insane fanatics is just more of the same old blind and historically ignorant attitude that got us into this mess to start with.

Until we face, openly and honestly, the role that our own policies and actions have played in making so many people hate us, we can only expect more of the same in the future.

I take a strong stance on this issue, and intentionally try to provoke people to think about it, precisely because the stakes are so high, precisely because I do not want my children, my friends, or anybody else to be victims of such things in the future.
Agreed, Dio. And not just America but the whole Western world. We are so smug in our own riches (even the poorest of us) that we fail to see the povery and despair, the hopeless rage of the 'have-nots' against the 'haves' who exploited them for centuries... and Britain with it's Empire was foremost in that exploitation. We should not be angry but ASHAMED that we have provoked what these people see as the NEED for terrorist action. To the despairing, the terrorist is a hero, and our labeling them as 'cowardly' is a ridiculous designation from their viewpoint.
I wonder how WE, in the West would behave if we were in the ssame position as that of those who hate us?
WE would be the terrorists! And WE would be cheering as we saw the death of OUR enemies.

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Old 09-15-2001, 06:06 AM   #196
Dreamer128
Dracolisk
 

Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Europe
Age: 39
Posts: 6,136
Quote:
Originally posted by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon:
I am sorry, but I am afraid I have to correct you once again: maybe afterwards (after 1945) 99% of the German population CLAIMED that they had never known anything about the Holocaust, but the actual percentage who had known of the existence of the extermination camps had been much higher and many German soldiers had witnessed the mass executions of Jews, gipsies, Russian and Polish cilivians and POWs (quite a few German soldiers had even participated in these atrocities). The vast majority of the German population of that time MUST have witnessed the ever-escalating discrimination of the German Jews and their subsequent deportation.

This whole subject is just much too important and grim to allow any kind of "inaccuracies" when discussing the actual historical events.
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Yes, the Jews have always been used as scapecoats.
But we've driven them right into the arms of the Nazi's. After WWI we forced Germany to pay for the intire war rather then to help them rebuild their country.The American president(Roosenvelt i think) already warned for this.
But we greedy bastards woudnt listen. The incredible amount of money they had to pay went at the expense of the population. There were no jobs or food when suddenly Hitler arrived to save the day promising them food and jobs and a future for their kids, blaming it all on the Jews. I think its logical so many people agreed on this. But i think the blame lies with us, not with the German people.

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Those who watch their backs meet death from the front- Dreamer128 Demonslayer of the OHF.

[This message has been edited by Dreamer128 (edited 09-15-2001).]
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Old 09-15-2001, 11:31 AM   #197
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer128:
Yes, the Jews have always been used as sheepcoats.(i do believe thats the word)
Scapegoats



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Old 09-15-2001, 11:41 AM   #198
skywalker
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: VT, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 3,097
I tend to think that even in the poorest of countries there are people in power, who have riches and they exploit their own people.

Mark
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Old 09-15-2001, 11:58 AM   #199
Dreamer128
Dracolisk
 

Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Europe
Age: 39
Posts: 6,136
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Scapegoats

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Thanks

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Old 09-15-2001, 12:02 PM   #200
John D Harris
Ninja Storm Shadow
 

Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker:
I tend to think that even in the poorest of countries there are people in power, who have riches and they exploit their own people.

Mark
Careful there Skywalker, you are begining to sound like a conservative southern redneck



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