Dungeons & Dragons... Satans Game...

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by MoldyOldie: Why are you bringing up something from the late 70's and early 80's that is long since a non issue with anyone but the extreme fringe?

That is not true...it is an issue here in North Carolina even today. I find that people tend to look at me a different way when I tell them that I enjoy NWN, and they ask me what it is about...and when I tell them, they get this look...you know...like they want to change the subject.

This one woman stopped me when I was telling her and said, I really don't want to hear anymore about it...I don't believe in stuff like that. Her faith (I will not mention what that is here) is not considered "extreme fringe" in this area.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

No offense taken at all, Wellard! I should have include the smiley's to show I was teasing you. My bad. You were also correct in saying that Christians generally exhibit one of the two attitudes you mentioned (not always, but in general it is true).

For what it's worth, I find statements like the one Dreamer copied to be somewhat humorous too. Well, actually it is more sad than funny. I have nothing against those that stand up for their convictions, I do it myself. But it is important to be informed on the subject you are "preaching" against. As I said before, some of the arguments agaisnt AD&D are legit (at least from a Christian POV), but it isn't anywhere near as vile or wicked as the "over-the-toppers" would have their followers believe.

Our own PnP group in college was divided pretty evenly between Christian and non-Christian...but our religious views were never an issue in the game itself. After a while, I personally felt like God wanted me to stop playing the game for different reasons, but NOT because the game itself was evil or wicked. A game is a game is a game. And AD&D - in and of itself - is NOT "evil" or "wicked".

As Larry pointed out, this [b]is[/i] still an issue in several areas. I'm 40 yrs old now, but I still hesitate to tell some people that I used to play AD&D in college. To some, it has the same impact as admitting you did drugs in college. Like Larry said, you get an "uncomfortable" look from them and they start shuffling their feet and try to change the subject.

All I ask from the members here is that you don't judge or ridicule Christians in general based on the actions and attitudes of a few.

[RevRuby]

this is something that i have even found in my diverse area. i have experienced even non-religious affiliated welfare type programs, when i admit to gaming they go "and that does not bother you?" i know where they are coming from. i told them quite specifically that there are ways to take the game too far, and that is not how we play.

this is the best defense i see because i have seen ppl taking it too far, but any fun activity can be taken too far, and the only thing reining it in is ourselves. if ppl want to focus on the bad things that is their decision. but when they focus on us we can defend ourselves and let them know their are problematic ppl out there, but it's just a game to us, and there is no reason to focus on those playing responsibly.

[Bungleau]

I think Larry picks on a very valid point. While we in the gaming community can look at this and see it as ridiculous, we may encounter those outside the gaming world who don't get it. So how do you help them get it, or at least get over it?

I can think of two approaches:

1. Invite them to watch it in action and see exactly what goes on.

2. Make comparisons to other areas where people take it too far so they realize it's not gaming that does it. For example, pitchers in baseball throwing at someone to get even for something.

Number one works if they're open to using their own senses to make up their own minds. Number two has lesser success, I believe, because since they know the other area, they'll say it's not like that and that *you* don't understand.

Now, some things I can add:

a. My high school administration did not appreciate it when they came across my brother and a group of his friends going through a gaming module based on our high school... including the layout, the staff, the faculty... okay, playing that in the cafeteria during lunch was never one of my brother's smarter moves [img]smile.gif[/img]

b. Some people just won't get it because they think they can't make up their own minds. I don't care what you say, or what evidence you show me, the world is still flat. I have no idea what to do with those folks other than move on and hope I don't have to rely on them for anything. It's not that their not reliable, but that they will be less inclined to go the extra mile for a heathen like me [img]smile.gif[/img]

So what are your thoughts in enabling others here to defend against the great unwashed masses?

[Dron_Cah]

Quote:
This reality distortion is frightening. A city police department in central Washington asks, "Are you a participant in Fantasy Role Games?" as a standard question . . . two people convicted of firing over three rounds into passing motor vehicles admitted that they "constantly fantasized killing someone." Other police departments have confirmed "some correlation" between Fantasy Role Playing Games and incidents showing up on their police blotter.

What does this quote have to do with roleplaying games? They said they "fantasized," not played a game in which they did so.

Soo stupid... must find... braaaiins!!

[slicer15]

I think one of the issues is that you have to be careful as a Christian playing D&D. Sure, you can play it, but do so cautiously. I mean, PnP D&D is hugely time consuming, and if you're not careful it can take over (like a lot of things - sport, games etc.) That's when it starts to become dangerous, because Christians must keep God above all things, and you should lay out some time for Him everyday. You also have to be careful about other aspects, like choosing your character's deity. I will change mine to have none, because it is taught that no names of any other deity should be spoken, even if it's a fantasy one. D&D calls some characters (like clerics and paladins) to worship their chosen deities, and that is where most concern lies. However, otherwise it is just a game, and as such I cannot understand why some people get so worked up about it. But each to their own, and I respect their choice.

[SpiritWarrior]

But why is using your imagination considered evil now? I suppose Tolkien was satanic too, and all fantasy novelists for that matter. I am sick and tired of hearing stuff like that to be honest cuz it makes me so livid. Open your bloody mind for once in your lives, world.

[ 12-22-2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by SpiritWarrior: But why is using your imagination considered evil now? I suppose Tolkien was satanic too, and all fantasy novelists for that matter. I am sick and tired of hearing stuff like that to be honest cuz it makes me so livid. Open your bloody mind for once in your lives, world.

It was even thanks to Tolkien that Dungeons and Dragons was invented. The sum of Gary Gigax's ideas came from Tolkien's novels, and helped the game blossom from there.

Look, I won't lie, I am a Christian, full blooded, but I do not look onto D&D as a bad thing. I have learned to keep an open mind on many things, and I've learned to try out something before I put a label of opinion on it. Unlike most Christians, I would say I am quite different from the rest of them. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I have not stepped foot in a church in over 4 years because due to some facts that what I do and what I write about would not be seen as appropriate to them. I don't want to listen to sermans to reinstate my faith in God, because I'll always have it, it's just the way I am.

The issues about D&D are still going on today, and it always will as long as there are people big on relegion. It is quite true, you have to be very careful when bringing up this subject to a relegious group of people. My aunt, which a very devoted member of the church (almost to the point where it's a bad thing), told me when I was 10 yrs old not to play D&D because it was evil, it has lead people to kill others in the name of satan, but I played it anyway. There is nothing wrong with this game, heh, I've played Dungeons and Dragons going on six years now, and it has helped open my imagination and is what inspired me to become a writer.

Now, most of the concerns revolving around D&D are due to two things, one is eternal damnation for worshipping gods in a text book, and weither it will 'push' someone to pull a D&D stunt. First of all, it is just a game, just because there are gods in it does not mean that people are going to worship them. And secondly, no game, and I don't care what it is, if you get the idea in your head to whack someone's head off with a sword, you'd have to be mentally unstable to begin with.

And Cerek, Wellard, anyone, if people look down on you or make their own opinions just because you (as well as myself) play a great game like this, ignore them. If they think it's a satanic game and such, well, you know their ignorance is hard at work then [img]tongue.gif[/img]

To sum up my rambling, people need to lighten up. It's only a game, a great game, but still, just a game.

[img]graemlins/arcadefreak.gif[/img]

[wellard]

Originally posted by Gangrell: First of all, it is just a game, just because there are gods in it does not mean that people are going to worship them. And secondly, no game, and I don't care what it is, if you get the idea in your head to whack someone's head off with a sword, you'd have to be mentally unstable to begin with. And Cerek, Wellard, anyone, if people look down on you or make their own opinions just because you (as well as myself) play a great game like this, ignore them. If they think it's a satanic game and such, well, you know their ignorance is hard at work then [img]tongue.gif[/img] To sum up my rambling, people need to lighten up. It's only a game, a great game, but still, just a game.

Sure it is ignorance at work Gangrell, but should such ignorance go unchecked? Cerek did well but it was a case of opening the eyes of the blind one at a time and I’m afraid that will be a losing battle. To let people breed such ignorance and leave it unquestioned is IMO the wrong thing to do.

Such comments from influential people should be ridiculed and displayed up to the bright light of the truth for all clear minded people to see. I wonder if the holders of D&D copyrights can sue the ass of this mob?
[img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[ 12-22-2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: wellard ]

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by wellard: Sure it is ignorance at work Gangrell, but should such ignorance go unchecked? Cerek did well but it was a case of opening the eyes of the blind one at a time and I’m afraid that will be a losing battle. To let people breed such ignorance and leave it unquestioned is IMO the wrong thing to do. Such comments from influential people should be ridiculed and displayed up to the bright light of the truth for all clear minded people to see. I wonder if the holders of D&D copyrights can sue the ass of this mob? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Wellard, he was able to help people that had the will to see it for themselves, there are many who will flat out refuse to see it because they're so stubbornly stuck in their ways. For them, it wouldn't matter, they'd rather have their ignorance and pride (arrogance) than be proven wrong. This is why it's a losing battle, because much of the relegious orders refuse to even be in the same room than with such a 'satanic' thing.

Much of what happens in Dungeons and Dragons is more or less based on the old medieval stories, you kill the bad guy and save a small town or village from destruction, become the hero (or villian, however you like to play) and so forth, so it's not really a bad thing. Now, in all seriousness, if a person does not want to be associated with me when I play D&D because their relegion 'forbids' it then that person does not have to be around me, they can leave the room and I would understand so it's only respectful. And here's the part I don't understand, most of the pentecostals, whenever they hear God's name pronounced plurally, they'll wig out and always assume it has to do with the devil and will make a big deal out of it. Like I said, ignorance is hard at work.

That's my 2 cents on it anyway.