Suicide why?

Not tried but concidered (jumping from 15th floor). Sounds like you really want me to take the final step.

Not rude either but clearly this is a topic you don't understand.

It is a selfish act so (in my case) finding the right time can be difficult but it has been taken care and I know when it is the right time.

[ 06-02-2003, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: Jan ]

[Shaide]

My view point about it is so hard. If You take your life, you lose then. The life isnt a rose way (as we say), and this is the wonderfull in the life, think about it, the life's gift like the funny stuffs or love, or other wouldnt be wonderfull, you would take it as normal things, and this things wouldnt give you happiness, and you would fell sad. I want to tell it: the life has good and bad things, but one week sadness take in his hand a next one week happiness, you mustnt see the bad things, 'cause all things have bad and good things.

What's the fate bring us in the future?.
If you take your life you wont know it

Shaide

[Melusine]

Johnny, you obviously feel very bad about your friend who took his life. I'm sorry that happened to you, and to him, and to all others who loved him.
I too lost someone to suicide. He was "married" to my uncle for over 23 years (ja, een homohuwelijk) and they were a fantastic couple, with lots of friends, always kind and warm and in immensely good spirits. They travelled a lot to countries like Kenia, and had contacts with orphanages there whom they brought all kinds of aid. They were stereotypical "levensgenieters". As I said on IW before, he was the person I would LEAST have expected to kill himself of all people I know. And yet he did, leaving my uncle behind devastated. So I understand about anger, I KNOW about anger.
(Someone made a good point saying that the people who will REALLY kill themselves don't talk about it or ask for help, they just do it - it leaves you helpless and disbelieving.)

But I also know what it's like to be on the other side. I don't feel like going into this, as people like Kaz and Jan so bravely have, and I have never seriously attempted to kill myself, but I do know what it's like wanting to destroy yourself. I've had times where my mind blanked out and I became an automaton, so I know that what you do in that state of mind is NOT what you'd do if you could control yourself. Though not all from personal experience, I know that people who become suicidal are often simply ill, suffering from depressions and the like. Do you blame someone with terminal cancer for dying? Of course you don't. It might be hard to put yourself in the place of a suicidal person, but then, you don't HAVE to understand how they feel. You can just accept the fact that when people are suicidally depressed, they may almost have as little choice in dying as a cancer patient has. And yes, that seems cruel and ironical - the cancer patient WANTS to live and dies, while the suicidal person is healthy yet robs him/herself of his/her life. But that's what a mental illness can do to you. If you don't have such an illness yourself, you cannot possibly know what goes on in their minds, whether they have any control over their feelings. It's not just something you can "snap out of".

Maybe most of us have felt "suicidal" at one point in our teens, emotions are often vehement in that time. Some teens have actual depressions at that age, others will grow out of it. But even if you think you have experienced suicidal feelings, weak or strong, you cannot judge what goes on in someone elses mind.
So I hope you realise that your comments can be very hurtful to people. Feeling isolated and misunderstood is a part of being suicidal and by your blatant refusal to try and understand, you are only aggravating things.

Edit:
As for your comment on "trying" to commit suicide, it is true that those who ask for help or talk about their suicidal feelings are less likely to kill themselves - as I said, those who truly wish to die do so without letting anyone know. But that doesn't mean that an attempt can't go wrong. It doesn't mean people who talk about being suicidal just want attention. Be GLAD they talk about it, it shows they have some spark left inside them that says "I don't want to die". But don't ever disparage their very real despair by saying "if you really wanted to kill yourself you wouldn't have failed in the attempts". A cry for help is not necessarily a cry for attention. One part of you, a huge part of you, can wish to die while a small part somewhere still holds on and tries to get better. Fighting that hard against a mental illness that can completely take over your thought is NOT cowardice.

[ 06-02-2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[johnny]

Originally posted by Jan: Not tried but concidered (jumping from 15th floor). Sounds like you really want me to take the final step. Not rude either but clearly this is a topic you don't understand. It is a selfish act so (in my case) finding the right time can be difficult but it has been taken care and I know when it is the right time.

Why would i want you to take that step ? I don't even know you. I'm just a little confused over things like this. Recently an old friend of mine killed himself, and in the past there were two other people i personally knew, who ended their lives with overdoses of pills. They knew exactly what they wanted, never said a word to anyone, and just did it.

I also know someone, who i still see from time to time, when he was having moneyproblems, tried to kill himself. Or, as i see it, came up with a lame attempt to ask for help. First he called a good friend, spoke a lot of stuff that didn't make sense, just to make sure he had his full attention, then he opened the frontdoor of his appartment so that anyone could walk right in, went to the bathroom, and cut his wrist.

Now, he knew all along that someone was coming over, he even opened his door for him, and yet he did something like that. Later he spoke of the whole thing as if it was something to be really proud of, like he did something heroic. Imo however it was NO attempt at suicide. I don't know how to call it, but he sure as hell never wanted to end his life.

I'm not trying to get someones attention. Hell no. It is the last thing I want. Nor is it a cry for help. I don't want help from anybody. I don't want to bother anybody with my problems. Call it lame - call me coward - call me whatever you want. In fact this is the first time I tell about it. Why do you ask?? I just got annoyed as I saw this thread. You hear and see this question about suicide over and over again. That's ok but there is too many people trying to answer it or think they understand it. THEY DON'T!!!!!!!! As Melusine wrote (great post by the way): Mental illness. You can't understand what is going on in the mind of a person who has some kind of mental defect. You must understand the fact that it is a very complicated question and the answer is almost impossible to understand. That's why all this coward-carp and etc. bothers me.

[ 06-02-2003, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Jan ]