Single-payer health care plan dies in Senate

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior The problem is current health insurance is a business, not a service. Every single health insurer wants to NOT PAY for you for getting sick or getting hurt. They do not have your physical health in mind, they have their financial health in mind. As long as that is the case, they will keep coming up with new and creative ways to point out the small print or simply say "No" when you need them. This isn't right when it comes to letting people die because legally, they aren covered. Yes, maybe competition through state lines will help. Much like cell phone carriers, text messages were charged per text when they first arrived, but as rival companies sprouted up, they had to have enticing offers, and so, as a result, most plans include unlimited or hundreds of free texts. Beforehand they were like 10c per text! Still, this would be only a part of the many issues.

I know there are plenty of stories about how insurance companies try to deny claims. One of my r/l buddies used to work for an insurance company and has told us stories of how the claims department employees used to go over applications of policyholders trying to find anything they could use to deny a claim. I don't doubt that happens every day. But I also know that, for millions of other people, their insurance does cover their medical costs every day. That is the main reason approximately 85% of Americans are satisfied with their current health insurance.

I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but it does work the way it's supposed to most of the time. Since 1993, I've had 7 major surgeries (resulting in my entire colon being removed), two stays in the ICU (one lasting 4 weeks), 4 or 5 hospital stays (unrelated to surgery), multiple trips to the ER, too many doctor visits and colonoscopy exams to count and even some home health care after my last round. I've lapsed into a 3-day coma before and had Last Rites administered twice. The combined amount of these medical expenses is well over $1,000,000. My hospital bill alone for the last incident was over $250,000. However, my total out-of-pocket expenses is somewhere between $10,000 and $12,000. That's still a LOT of money, to be sure, but it's still just a fraction of the total expenses incurred. And I had 4 different insurance carriers during this time. Each one covered the vast majority of my bills with no hassle at all.

Still, you're point about insurance being a business is valid and is one reason miedical bills are still a leading cause of bankruptcy in America.

While health care service provided without consideration for profit seems like a logical answer, any such service will still have to control their costs. Part of that can be accomplished through negotiation, but the bulk of it will have to come from limiting the amount of care covered or provided. That's not an "evil" thing, it's just a realistic fact. Insurance carriers already "ration" the healthcare they provide. A government-run service will have to do the same if they want to keep costs from spiraling out of control (not that our government has ever been concerned with out-of-control spending ).

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Morgeruat Agreed, years ago I heard of a guy in Alaska, friend of a friend type thing while I was in the military, who started up a property insurance company, everything went great, they had quite a sizable coverage area, then an earthquake hit the area doing a fairly large amount of damage, before a claim had been filed, he was filing for bankruptcy, locked the doors and walked away with years worth of premiums as profit he never have to give back. The story ended there and I sincerely hope those people were taken care of and the owner facing severe legal repercussions, but faced with paying out claims, the owner closed his doors rather than pay out.

That's what can happen with independent insurers, but it's a much harder for the national companies to do that because they can't just close up and disappear. My father was an agent for Nationwide Insurance for many years. On April 4, 1974 (Day of 100 Tornadoes), our county was hit with an F3 tornado, devastating a large part of the area. Within two days, Nationwide had sent an entire team of adjusters into our town to help inspect the damage and settle the hundreds of claims resulting from the storm.

The guy in Alaska folded because his business couldn't offset the loss he was about to suffer, but if his company had provided coverage in the other 49 states, the earthquake claims could have been covered with the premiums from other areas.

Allowing commercial healthcarriers to offer coverage across state lines and compete on a national level will help eliminate a lot of the problems occurring within the industry. The companies will still be looking to turn a profit, but they will have a much larger client base which will help absorb the cost of claims.

[Morgeruat]

Originally Posted by robertthebard If all they want to address is insurance, which seems to be the case, then yeah, they could lift the restrictions in place that prohibit competition. However, I really wish they'd quit referring to it as Health Care Reform, since they aren't even working on Health Care.

Well, with the best healthcare system in the world (cancer survival rates are just one simple example), it's no surprise they don't want it "reformed." They want care expanded and costs down.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Cerek Any idea why the mandatory insurance caused a shortage of doctors in some places?

A surplus of newly insured patients. It seems when the uninsured became mandatorily insured, they used it.

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior The problem is current health insurance is a business, not a service. Every single health insurer wants to NOT PAY for you for getting sick or getting hurt. They do not have your physical health in mind, they have their financial health in mind. As long as that is the case, they will keep coming up with new and creative ways to point out the small print or simply say "No" when you need them. This isn't right when it comes to letting people die because legally, they aren covered. Yes, maybe competition through state lines will help. Much like cell phone carriers, text messages were charged per text when they first arrived, but as rival companies sprouted up, they had to have enticing offers, and so, as a result, most plans include unlimited or hundreds of free texts. Beforehand they were like 10c per text! Still, this would be only a part of the many issues.

Insurance companies have to pay employees, the electric bill, the phone bill, just like every other company does. Competition does help, if the government gets out of the way. The major problem with being able to buy insurance across state lines is that some States require that certain service or things be covered, and other States don't require the same things. So Even if you buy insurance from a company in Alabama and you live in Mass. the company would still have to cover what the State of Mass. says it has to cover so there wouldn't be much of a savings from the competition, but anything would help. Making the insurance companies not for profit would help some, but until the inflation in the healthcare industry is addressed nothing is going to work. The problem with the Government taking care of everything is the beaurac-a$$-ee.

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by robertthebard If all they want to address is insurance, which seems to be the case, then yeah, they could lift the restrictions in place that prohibit competition. However, I really wish they'd quit referring to it as Health Care Reform, since they aren't even working on Health Care.

HERE HERE Robert It ain't health care it's Health coverage and cost. We have the best Health care in the world. my wife is alive now because of the health care, we had to file bankrupecy because of the health cost.

[robertthebard]

Originally Posted by Morgeruat Well, with the best healthcare system in the world (cancer survival rates are just one simple example), it's no surprise they don't want it "reformed." They want care expanded and costs down.

I have seen nothing in anything I have read about costs of Health Care. It's all been about insurance, and frankly, even people with insurance have had to file bankruptcy because of the cost of Health Care.

Going to school to be a doctor is expensive. It is expensive, just like going to college to be a lawyer, because the school has a reasonable expectation that you are going to make a lot of money as a doctor, even if you don't go into strictly a private practice. The cost of some tests, such as an MRI are inflated to cover the cost of the machine, which is expensive because the manufacturers know that facilities can charge enough to cover the expense of the machine. This infrastructure(? I guess) is what needs to be looked at. As with the costs of my migraine shots, I'm paying an exhorbitant amount of money for two injections. They have my file, and don't have to do a full exam every time, although my bp, temp and pulse are always checked. However, even with that, it seems the cost is too high.

This is what the Government should be trying to "fix".

[Morgeruat]

There's also nothing about tort reform. By all means fire the quacks remove their licenses and reimburse patients, but PA is suffering from a shortage of skilled doctors because malpractice insurance rates are just completely insane, and they can make a much better living somewhere like Texas which has had meaningful tort reform.

Also, totally agree John D and Bobard.

[ElfBane]

Originally Posted by Morgeruat There's also nothing about tort reform. By all means fire the quacks remove their licenses and reimburse patients, but PA is suffering from a shortage of skilled doctors because malpractice insurance rates are just completely insane, and they can make a much better living somewhere like Texas which has had meaningful tort reform. Also, totally agree John D and Bobard.

Here's my tort reform; nationalize the entire medical provider industry, that'll make torts difficult to almost impossible.

Tort reform part deux; Actually have tort reform. But now you're asking lawyers(legislatures) to reform a source of their income. This may be difficult. But Texas managed it....psst! how DID they manage that? More farmers and businessmen in the legislature...enough to cancel out the lawyer influence?

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Morgeruat Well, with the best healthcare system in the world (cancer survival rates are just one simple example), it's no surprise they don't want it "reformed." They want care expanded and costs down.

The US is number 37 on the World health Organizations list. France is actually the best healthcare system in the world. The US would probably be the most expensive one though. Cancer survival rates are lower in other countries because they have less cancer, not less survivors.