On Nazism

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

In our society, we tend to view Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party as unthinkable monsters, not even human, unimaginably alien to ourselves and our own cultures.

But what qualities does it really take to be a good Nazi? By that I don't mean Hitler himself or his immediate cronies, but the rank and file of the German people, who (even if not officially a member of the Nazi party, and most weren't) filled its armies and manned its factories and gave their all to support the war effort of Hitler.

It was none other than steadfast, brave, loyal patriotism. A love of country, a sense of duty to the fatherland, a sense of national identity, of the sentiment "my country, right or wrong."

No different whatsoever than the flag waving patriotic emotion in America today.



Thoughts, comments, flames?

[Lifetime]

When you said qualities, I thought Blond Hair, Blue(?) eyes, chiseled chin, straight nose, athletic qualities and a higher than average IQ, and generally 100% Aryan blood
I could be wrong about some of the above though, but I think that was what Hitler described as the perfect Nazi. Jews could also be steadfast, brave and patriotic and I'm sure that Hitler, though through his hatred of Jews, knew that. If he wanted loyal soldiers or patriots, he would'nt bother with his Anti-Semitic horsecrap..

I'm not too sure, but I think he wrote something of the Aryan man's superiority in his book, Mein Kampf.

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No-Name Face

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Lifetime: When you said qualities, I thought Blond Hair, Blue(?) eyes, chiseled chin, straight nose, athletic qualities and a higher than average IQ, and generally 100% Aryan blood I could be wrong about some of the above though, but I think that was what Hitler described as the perfect Nazi. Jews could also be steadfast, brave and patriotic and I'm sure that Hitler, though through his hatred of Jews, knew that. If he wanted loyal soldiers or patriots, he would'nt bother with his Anti-Semitic horsecrap.. I'm not too sure, but I think he wrote something of the Aryan man's superiority in his book, Mein Kampf.

Lifetime, I am not talking about the views of Hitler, but rather of what motivated the common german people.

That's why Nationalism is so very Wrong
It'll blind you from the truth
Only listening to your own leader
Making you easily manipulatible

From my point of view that people supported the National-Socialists is understandible, Germany was in severe trouble and Hitler promissed to make everything right.
I do think it was wrong and it was not a smart thing to do because only if they looked further, if only they would have tried to discover what Hitler really stood for.
But I can;t blame them
The English and French fell for it too (Austria and Czechoslovakia)

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and you have to admit if the Cross wasn;t in the Naziflag, it's a really nice flag

Interesting topic, Illuminate Numero Uno.... ( #1 Illuminated one if your no hablos espanol like I am.)
I'm too tired to comment very much on the motivations/consequences of blindly following authority, without question and regardless of the consequences. Im just glad here in America we can petition our grievances to the goverment and remain "patriotic", so we dont hafta follow along like sheep unless its our nature. Im sure some in Nazi germany followed out of fear, not patriotism. Also Hitler was quite skilled at propoganda, maybe more so than the Western media. Maybe more I will write tomorrow. I recently got promoted, and it carries much longer hours and greater responsibility, so I must rest now.
Ciao

[Bullvye]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: In our society, we tend to view Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party as unthinkable monsters, not even human, unimaginably alien to ourselves and our own cultures. But what qualities does it really take to be a good Nazi? By that I don't mean Hitler himself or his immediate cronies, but the rank and file of the German people, who (even if not officially a member of the Nazi party, and most weren't) filled its armies and manned its factories and gave their all to support the war effort of Hitler. It was none other than steadfast, brave, loyal patriotism. A love of country, a sense of duty to the fatherland, a sense of national identity, of the sentiment "my country, right or wrong." No different whatsoever than the flag waving patriotic emotion in America today. Thoughts, comments, flames?

Hmmm.... I'd say that it takes a lot of propaganda, misinformation, and disinformation.
Exactly what bin Laden practices. Then, any professor at any halfway decently accredited university would know that! (BTW, was Sally Struthers the spokesperson for your college)

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[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Bullvye: Hmmm.... I'd say that it takes a lot of propaganda, misinformation, and disinformation. Exactly what bin Laden practices. Then, any professor at any halfway decently accredited university would know that! (BTW, was Sally Struthers the spokesperson for your college)

The question was what qualities it took in an individual person. The answer is a sense of patriotism and nationalism so strong that one is willing to follow the government and leaders blindly in the name of loyalty and duty.

[Lifetime]

Doh! Right Dio I misunderstood your question.
Were you talking about why the Germans voted Hitler into power or how he gained their support AFTER coming into power?
I believe that any good speaker with half a brain can manipulate a crowd, and Hitler was quite a gifted speaker at that.

About what motivated the people? Hitler motivated the people. He promised them wealth, prosperity, freedom, and a restoration of national Pride. He promised them a nation they could be proud of. He rose to power because of the severe and harsh conditions of the people, (living under the Treaty of Versailles, the Great Depression, the loss of rightful German territory) and played with their minds and hearts to gain support for his Nazi war machine. He indoctrinated children into the Nazi cause(think the Hitler Youth, or the League of German Maidens, concentrating solely on the Aryan superiority), and made Nazism a way of life(formed cells and groups for every aspect of society, so as to better control certain groups of individuals and strengthen them to the Nazi cause).

The main difference between the Nationalistic German and the Patriotic American is that the Germans were some of the poorest in Europe. They were no longer a great power to contend with England or France, had lost their territories and their people, and their currency was badly inflated. Americans are the richest, have very high standards of living, and generally do as they please. The belief is the same: national pride, desire for strong, decisive leaders to take action against oppressers, but the motives are different. The Germans were motivated by a better life, and hope. The Americans are motivated by anger, and pride. Most German people did not want to start a World War. Most Americans don't either. But neither will stand down and see their nation be trodded upon. That is the difference, and the similarity. The circumstances are different, but patriotism will always be patriotism, no matter what, who or how its inspired.

Sometimes, when people have to choose between two evils, it can be blur as to which is the lesser.

It took no special qualities. A whole nation cannot be expected to have such a thing in common. A good Nazi was not born, he was MADE. My post is about how Hitler MADE these people, and what he used to do so. He instilled patriotism and a sense of national pride and duty. He played and built upon what was already there in every German's mind to begin with: the Treaty of Versailles. If your question is about WHAT made the Nazis(As in why the formed and also what they were made of), then it should be the Treaty of Versailles, and not patriotism or blind loyalty. The Nazi regime was about defying this treaty and bringing Germany back to power. It does not take a Patriot to make a Tyrant. Or in this case, a Nazi. The Nazis WERE patriots, and they WERE tyrants, but they were NOT made up of Patriotism. Patriotism can be for personal gain, or for the good of the nation, and in Germany's case it was for the good of the nation, which would ultimately mean good for personal gain. I dont see how American Patriots have anything to gain by cheering their country on.
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No-Name Face

[This message has been edited by Lifetime (edited 10-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Lifetime (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Lifetime: Doh! Right Dio I misunderstood your question. Were you talking about why the Germans voted Hitler into power or how he gained their support AFTER coming into power? I believe that any good speaker with half a brain can manipulate a crowd, and Hitler was quite a gifted speaker at that. About what motivated the people? Hitler motivated the people. He promised them wealth, prosperity, freedom, and a restoration of national Pride. He promised them a nation they could be proud of. He rose to power because of the severe and harsh conditions of the people, (living under the Treaty of Versailles, the Great Depression, the loss of rightful German territory) and played with their minds and hearts to gain support for his Nazi war machine. He indoctrinated children into the Nazi cause(think the Hitler Youth, or the League of German Maidens, concentrating solely on the Aryan superiority), and made Nazism a way of life(formed cells and groups for every aspect of society, so as to better control certain groups of individuals and strengthen them to the Nazi cause). The main difference between the Nationalistic German and the Patriotic American is that the Germans were some of the poorest in Europe. They were no longer a great power to contend with England or France, had lost their territories and their people, and their currency was badly inflated. Americans are the richest, have very high standards of living, and generally do as they please. The belief is the same: national pride, desire for strong, decisive leaders to take action against oppressers, but the motives are different. The Germans were motivated by a better life, and hope. The Americans are motivated by anger, and pride. Most German people did not want to start a World War. Most Americans don't either. But neither will stand down and see their nation be trodded upon. That is the difference, and the similarity. The circumstances are different, but patriotism will always be patriotism, no matter what, who or how its inspired. Sometimes, when people have to choose between two evils, it can be blur as to which is the lesser.

Wow. Excellent and astute post, Lifetime. I agree.


Edited: Hmmmm . . . I see you added another paragraph. I liked your post better before. It is now less excellent and astute than it was

[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 10-08-2001).]