The Bible

[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Yorick: I'm bemused as to your definition of a novel mate. Do we call a collection of Yeats poetry a novel? How about a philisophical work by Jung? Are the proverbs of Confucious considered a novel? What about a letter? Is that a novel? A collection of letters. Are they lumped together and called a novel?

Novel: fictitious prose story of considerable lenght and complexity, expecially one representing character and action with some degree of realism. (Oxford dictionnary)

And I did read the "novel".

[John D Harris]

I believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God, but not nessisarily (oh forget it I typed it out 3 times and it still isn't right) literal. Remember it is an infinite God trying to speak to finite man in terms that finite man can grasp. I too think the creation story is figurative, but that does not change the fact that God created the universe.
A Harris parable:
There once was a 2 dimemsional creature sitting at home and before his very 2 dim. eyes a piece of 2 dim. matter appears and starts to grow. the 2 dim. creaure freaks then he hears this voice that tells him it is ok, and he is actually seeing a 3 dim. creature pass thru his 2 dim. world. Since he is only 2 dim. he can not grasp that there is another dimemsion. So the voice ( the 3 dim. creature) tells the 2 dim. creature "I'll try to explain it to you". "Draw a circle", Now drawing a circle in 3 dim. is easy, but it is tough in 2 dim. it can be done using some mathamatical formulas. So the 3 dim creature paitently (sp?) waits while the 2 dim does the math.
The 2 dim. gets the circle drawn, and the 3 dim. tells him to rotate the circle and he will be able to grasp the 3rd Dim. So the 2 dim. rotates the circle clockwise.
"No" says the 3 dim. "rotate it the other way".
So the 2 dim. rotates the circle counter-clockwise.
Again the 3 dim. say "no I mean the other way"
Now the 2 dim. only knows of two ways. so the 3 dim. says "I'll show you".
And he rotates the circle in the 3rd dim.
The 2 dim. only sees a circle turn into an oval then a line then back to an oval then to a circle once again. Because of his limitations ( the 2 dim. can not grasp how it is done) yet it is done, Matter appears and changes before his eyes.
God has a simular (sp?) problem with us, how does He explain to us about the infinite, we are finite. We can't grasp how to turn the circle in the other direction.




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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[domingo]

The Bible is the record of a people ... which is a foundation for many religions .... I Beleive it is true ... but it might not be wise to take everything word for word ...as it has been translated numerous times through many different languages and by hand .. with room for human error. As for the seven days thing .... supposedly (and correct me if Im wrong on this) it says in the scriptures somewhere something about gods time in referance to ours and its something like 1hr = 1000 years .. Im not completely sure on that one.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: Novel: fictitious prose story of considerable lenght and complexity, expecially one representing character and action with some degree of realism. (Oxford dictionnary) And I did read the "novel".

Then why did you call it a novel? By virtue of it being in part poetry (as opposed to prose), let alone the letters/philosophies(no character or action)/histories etc. your definition does not fit. As Fjlotsdale stated it is a collection of 66 books. We do not call 66 books about anything "a novel", even if they are all fictional stories! If we buy all Shakespears plays under one cover, that doesn't change the collective nature of it.

Put bluntly, I don't believe you did read it. For a start reading it from cover to cover is not the way to read it.

Tal, Seph, 250, F, John, thanks guys LOL.

G'kar, the NIV is translated from texts independently of the KJV which is why there are some differences and ommissions.

Domingo, good call. What is a day to a being outside time? If God is outside time, everything has already happened, will happen and is happening all at once. He just "is". I don't care if it was seven days, seven epochs or seven seconds.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

History
Advice
Comfort
Inspiration
Hope

It does not matter to me what has been lost or changed in translations, I believe God gets His message across to each of us through it.
Any time I pick it up I am reminded of our meager beginnings, offered guidance, given relief, filled with inspiration, and I leave it with hope for all of us in my heart.

*Hugs*
Moni

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The Greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 08-22-2001).]

[WOLFGIR]

Well I think that there are many ways to see and to read the Bible. My first time throw, was of pure interest and to seek answers. needless to say. i didn´t find nswer but I thought it was pretty cool, booring and also very "telling you this or that".

The Old testament is more like a fiction book. The godfearing part. Very easy to misinterpretate (ohh, big long nasty words ) but interesting. The new testament is pretty much a philosophic discussion on ho to treat people. No need to be believing, I´m not, yet I found alot o interesting ideas and sayings. many interesting "stories in lack of better word" that could lead o alot of interesting discussions.

Second time I read it, I viewd it as an occult book, since I then studied alot about alternative religions and satanism, and wanted to see if there were ay answers and also wanted to check out some things from popular satanism. I can tell you this at least. The bible is way cooler than satanism. The base perspective have to be for most normal persons:
I rather live close to a nice caring person than to an overlord wanna be (except if it is Azurewolf )

The Occult studies was very interesting, alot of old myths about the bible vcan be found here. The famous debate about 666, not the nimber of the beats, but of man. (Creation of Adam) and the number 666, vomed from a midcentury translation. The real number varies from 606, 601 and 626. All due to translation since it is a number based on Kabbala and numerology.

So Well I cantell everyone that is believnig to rad the Bible as an Occult book (I don´t mean any disrespect by this!!) because it is very interesting and you can argue down alot of old missguyidnings and such. The book of revelations (?) is very interesting for the occult studies. The doomsday aspect of course has more to man to do than the divine aspects, and well, all religions and beliefs come to the exinction point of life as we know it. This however id very close to fiction and is the base for alot of horror movies. Really intersting.

As a conclusion I can say that the Bible is iteresting, even if you don´t believe in god. I mean the book is written by man, and man is destine to fail and such, don´t read letter by letter, cause then you would be close to the Talibahns... And well most people don´t like extremists. If you believ, see it as a book of wisdom, learn from others failures and misstakes, and revel in the love that Jesus shows mankind. Of coursem this is the perspectives froman unbelieving guy, and should be read as that too. I don´t claim to hold the best answer, I think that is for you to find.

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Yawning lazywolf dreaming about nice little fairies...zzzzz
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

[Erekose]

Please..... the modern Bible that exists today is a conglomorate of various religious texts decided upon by a council that feared a rise in agnostic belief. The Bible is filled with both postitive and negative representations of types of truth and does have a number of compelling naratives behind the stories. I agree that the work is inspired but not inspired by any "higher power". And that's my two cents worth......

[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Yorick: Then why did you call it a novel? By virtue of it being in part poetry (as opposed to prose), let alone the letters/philosophies(no character or action)/histories etc. your definition does not fit.

I see your point. However, that's the only definition I could find that would include the "fictitious" aspect of thing. Which, if you ask me, is far more important that the way the text was written. Mind you, I'm a Francophone and I don't have a full English vocab. BTW: what would you call a book of philosophical poetry filled with fictitious stories?

I have seen bible that were written in prose (both in French and English). It all depends of the translation and the targetted audience I guess. Anyway, the one I did read was not.

The reason I started this thread was to see the interpretation that one did of the bible. In my opinion, God the does not exit. Therefore, while I recognize that biblical character might of existed, their actions with God are totally fictitious.

I'm not trying to put down the content of the bible or try to convince others of my thoughs on the book. It is indeed a very good philosophical book that set forth life values and ethical standards - which would made this world much better if more would follow them.

When I said "dangerous" I was refering to extremist interpretation of the Bible. For exemple, Jehovah Witness' who won't let their child get a blood transfusion and other "stuff" like that.

Ryanamur

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: Good ethical debate: what is the bible? What are your thoughts on the subject?

A collection of different works from various sources over a large span of time, covering aspects of mythology, religion, philosophy, history, ethics, poetry, etc. A whale of a book.

[Gabe]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: .........It also contains a set of rules for human living that is unsurpassed anywhere..........

Sorry to start like this but Fljotsdale I have to say you are wrong here, slimmer beliefs and teachings can be found in nearly all religous texts not just the bible.

Anyway back to the point. The articals of bible are written by others not the allgaed son of god himself, in fact we only have their word that he existed at all, yet it teaching if understood correctly can be helpful if not a full code to live by. As for it value as a colloction of short stories and provbers, each one is fine singularly but contratidy when put togeather, yet with them are helpful messages to live by yet such messages can be found within most normal novels. Niether is it the oldest regious text, and it form has been curpted(?) from the orginal to suit the needs to those who lead the religon. Hmm I hope this makes sense.

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The angel's MIA.