Religion - Page 15

John D Harris · 01-23-2002, 11:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:

As to your charge, I guess there are more "wierdos" in the USA than in Britain. But then again there are MORE PEOPLE aren't there? Roughly four times as many. So there are probaly more intelligent people, more artists, more inventors, more boring people, and more closed minded bigots who slag off other nations too.

Yorick, We're a nation of "nut cases",where I'm from we are proud of them we bring them out in the parlor and parade'em around.

Melusine · 01-24-2002, 05:39 AM

Wow you guys! My hat's off to you for responding so civilly and reasonably to a post founded on such prejudice and ignorance. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

FWIW, not everybody in Europe thinks about it this way, as I'm sure you all know [img]smile.gif[/img]
Oh and Tarox, don't you think that since paganism existed before America did, your assumptions are illogical to say the least?

WOLFGIR · 01-24-2002, 07:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tarox:
Ok I'm going to be totally British her

And I will do this the Swedish style!

quote:
All this Wicca basket stuff and Pagan what not
Is it a coincidence you all seem to be from the USA
I truly believe the USA is really messed up in the head when it comes to wierd religions and ritual cults and other mumbo jumbo
Its always the sort of thing people say about then say its from the US and that kinda explains it all as if its an excuse for wierd shit

Ok im not saying we dont have a few people like that in the rest of the civilised world but the US always seems to be teeming with all this crap.

Hmm, well we started alot of crap over here too you know.. USA may have most of the "christian varieties" of churches though, and don´t forget, there are alot of americans represented here, so a bit more non-generalisation could be in order perhaps?? Not dizzing you man, but well.. Tread lightly in a minefield and you might make it through and all that..

Well Paganism and wicca is far from American you know.. Hehe, how long since the we europeans howled to the moon had druids in Ireland? Sacrificed goats to see the future? Paganism are a sort of "nature" religion and we have alot of that here in Europe as well. My advice. Open your eyes a bit more, maybe your neighbour isn´t just going to buy cigarettes in that outfit! Here in Sweden we have alot of people praying to the old Asa gods, some runs naked in the moon howling to the spirits, some sit and meditate close to the coast, some burn RPG´s and screams about the devil taken control of the government (not sure they are too far off on that actually )

quote:
Anytime there is a new religion or cult or some sorta wierdo following it comes from over there....

Dunno good luck to you all im not saying anything against you as such
just something i noticed

Read more of the religious threads here.. Just a suggestion..

Lugh · 01-27-2002, 07:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tarox:
Ok I'm going to be totally British here

And I'll be rational

1) Wicca (neo-pagan witchcraft) was revived/recreated by a group of British people. In fact there's quite a few pagans in the Uk.

2)Paganism is not a cult. I can't think of any group of people who are less likely to blindly follow the words of a supreme leader. Most pagans are very individual thinkers who don't like being told what to believe.

3)America isn't all bad. they give us the simpsons and Buffy.What more can we ask of them?

Barry the Sprout · 01-27-2002, 08:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:

You've missed the point. Teachings are a means, not an end. You learn a language so you can communicate. You learn how to drive so you can...drive. Getting English lessons to speak Mandarin better would be ludicrous. Being taught how to cook so you can drive is equally bizzare.

I think Neb was coming from a consequentialist viewpoint. The end result is the important thing i.e. how the teachings effect the world through your actions. This is also how I would view Christs impact on peoples lives, the important thing is how they act in the knowldege of those teachings, not how they understand them. That may sound woolly, but it is difficult to explain via a keyboard. There are many interpretaions of Christ and even the most abhorent, to me, will earn my respect if it leads to good deads from its followers. That is simply my opinion Yorick and I am prepared for you to disagree with me, but please do so in the knowldege that I am not attacking you personally. I just think we have different views of Christianity's impact on peoples lives.

Yorick · 01-27-2002, 06:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:

I think Neb was coming from a consequentialist viewpoint. The end result is the important thing i.e. how the teachings effect the world through your actions. This is also how I would view Christs impact on peoples lives, the important thing is how they act in the knowldege of those teachings, not how they understand them. That may sound woolly, but it is difficult to explain via a keyboard. There are many interpretaions of Christ and even the most abhorent, to me, will earn my respect if it leads to good deads from its followers. That is simply my opinion Yorick and I am prepared for you to disagree with me, but please do so in the knowldege that I am not attacking you personally. I just think we have different views of Christianity's impact on peoples lives.

Fair enough Barry. I have no quarrel with you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

01-27-2002, 06:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Tarox:
Ok I'm going to be totally British here

All this Wicca basket stuff and Pagan what not
Is it a coincidence you all seem to be from the USA

Speak for yourself

. I'm British and don't share your viewpoint entirely, especially given my own Shamanic view of things

Defining a releigion is tricky. I don't know where a sect/cult would end and a full religion begin. Is it the number of followers or how widespread it is maybe?

Yorick · 01-27-2002, 06:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Shield:

Speak for yourself . I'm British and don't share your viewpoint entirely, especially given my own Shamanic view of things

Defining a releigion is tricky. I don't know where a sect/cult would end and a full religion begin. Is it the number of followers or how widespread it is maybe?

The definition for cult was vague, but sect said this:

sect:
Pronunciation: 'sekt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English secte, from Middle French & Late Latin & Latin; Middle French, group, sect, from Late Latin secta organized ecclesiastical body, from Latin, course of action, way of life, probably from sectari to pursue, frequentative of sequi to follow
Date: 14th century
1 a : a dissenting or schismatic religious body; especially : one regarded as extreme or heretical b : a religious denomination
2 archaic : SEX 1
3 a : a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader

I prefer definition 1 that I bolded. A sect is relative to the religion it branches away from. Jehovahs Witnesses is considered a sect by every other christian denomination for example, because it's doctrine and practice is fundamentally different to mainline christianity.

A cult on the other hand, need not be affiliated with any major religion, but is centred around a personality. A leader. Normally that leader excercises considerable mental control of the adherants, much, much more than a Guru, Yogi, Priest, Monk, Pastor or spiritual mentor would.

It is both the controlling aspect, and the pivotal personality that end up defining a cult, ala David Koresh's Branch Davidian, Rev. Sun Moon's 'Moonies' and the 'Orange People' to name a few.... well barely any really

I suppose you could call Al Qa'eda a cultlike sect using those definitions.

Thus Paganism is not a cult. It is not even a religion, but a grouping of various religions and beliefs of similar ethos and worldview under one umbrella definition.

Cerek the Barbaric · 02-05-2002, 09:12 AM

BUMPED for K T Ong.

[ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

01-23-2002, 11:06 PM	#141
John D Harris Ninja Storm Shadow Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Northport,Alabama, USA Age: 62 Posts: 3,577	quote: Originally posted by Yorick: As to your charge, I guess there are more "wierdos" in the USA than in Britain. But then again there are MORE PEOPLE aren't there? Roughly four times as many. So there are probaly more intelligent people, more artists, more inventors, more boring people, and more closed minded bigots who slag off other nations too. Yorick, We're a nation of "nut cases",where I'm from we are proud of them we bring them out in the parlor and parade'em around. __________________ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts

01-24-2002, 05:39 AM	#142
Melusine Dracolisk Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 43 Posts: 6,541	Wow you guys! My hat's off to you for responding so civilly and reasonably to a post founded on such prejudice and ignorance. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] FWIW, not everybody in Europe thinks about it this way, as I'm sure you all know [img]smile.gif[/img] Oh and Tarox, don't you think that since paganism existed before America did, your assumptions are illogical to say the least? __________________ [img]\"hosted/melusine.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Your voice is ambrosia

01-24-2002, 07:21 AM	#143
WOLFGIR Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 3,450	quote: Originally posted by Tarox: Ok I'm going to be totally British her And I will do this the Swedish style! quote: All this Wicca basket stuff and Pagan what not Is it a coincidence you all seem to be from the USA I truly believe the USA is really messed up in the head when it comes to wierd religions and ritual cults and other mumbo jumbo Its always the sort of thing people say about then say its from the US and that kinda explains it all as if its an excuse for wierd shit Ok im not saying we dont have a few people like that in the rest of the civilised world but the US always seems to be teeming with all this crap. Hmm, well we started alot of crap over here too you know.. USA may have most of the "christian varieties" of churches though, and don´t forget, there are alot of americans represented here, so a bit more non-generalisation could be in order perhaps?? Not dizzing you man, but well.. Tread lightly in a minefield and you might make it through and all that.. Well Paganism and wicca is far from American you know.. Hehe, how long since the we europeans howled to the moon had druids in Ireland? Sacrificed goats to see the future? Paganism are a sort of "nature" religion and we have alot of that here in Europe as well. My advice. Open your eyes a bit more, maybe your neighbour isn´t just going to buy cigarettes in that outfit! Here in Sweden we have alot of people praying to the old Asa gods, some runs naked in the moon howling to the spirits, some sit and meditate close to the coast, some burn RPG´s and screams about the devil taken control of the government (not sure they are too far off on that actually ) quote: Anytime there is a new religion or cult or some sorta wierdo following it comes from over there.... Dunno good luck to you all im not saying anything against you as such just something i noticed Read more of the religious threads here.. Just a suggestion.. __________________ Don´t eat the yellow snow

01-27-2002, 07:25 AM	#144
Lugh Welcomed New User Join Date: January 19, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 3	quote: Originally posted by Tarox: Ok I'm going to be totally British here And I'll be rational 1) Wicca (neo-pagan witchcraft) was revived/recreated by a group of British people. In fact there's quite a few pagans in the Uk. 2)Paganism is not a cult. I can't think of any group of people who are less likely to blindly follow the words of a supreme leader. Most pagans are very individual thinkers who don't like being told what to believe. 3)America isn't all bad. they give us the simpsons and Buffy.What more can we ask of them?

01-27-2002, 08:46 AM	#145
Barry the Sprout White Dragon Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: York, UK. Age: 41 Posts: 1,815	quote: Originally posted by Yorick: You've missed the point. Teachings are a means, not an end. You learn a language so you can communicate. You learn how to drive so you can...drive. Getting English lessons to speak Mandarin better would be ludicrous. Being taught how to cook so you can drive is equally bizzare. I think Neb was coming from a consequentialist viewpoint. The end result is the important thing i.e. how the teachings effect the world through your actions. This is also how I would view Christs impact on peoples lives, the important thing is how they act in the knowldege of those teachings, not how they understand them. That may sound woolly, but it is difficult to explain via a keyboard. There are many interpretaions of Christ and even the most abhorent, to me, will earn my respect if it leads to good deads from its followers. That is simply my opinion Yorick and I am prepared for you to disagree with me, but please do so in the knowldege that I am not attacking you personally. I just think we have different views of Christianity's impact on peoples lives. __________________ [img]\"http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/sproutman/certwist.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br /><i>\"And the angels all pallid and wan,<br />Uprising, unveiling, affirm,<br />That the play is the tragedy, man,<br />And its hero the Conquerer Worm.\"</i><br /> - Edgar Allan Poe

01-27-2002, 06:04 PM	#146
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	quote: Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: I think Neb was coming from a consequentialist viewpoint. The end result is the important thing i.e. how the teachings effect the world through your actions. This is also how I would view Christs impact on peoples lives, the important thing is how they act in the knowldege of those teachings, not how they understand them. That may sound woolly, but it is difficult to explain via a keyboard. There are many interpretaions of Christ and even the most abhorent, to me, will earn my respect if it leads to good deads from its followers. That is simply my opinion Yorick and I am prepared for you to disagree with me, but please do so in the knowldege that I am not attacking you personally. I just think we have different views of Christianity's impact on peoples lives. Fair enough Barry. I have no quarrel with you. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://www.hughwilson.com

01-27-2002, 06:10 PM	#147
Lord Shield Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Tarox: Ok I'm going to be totally British here All this Wicca basket stuff and Pagan what not Is it a coincidence you all seem to be from the USA Speak for yourself . I'm British and don't share your viewpoint entirely, especially given my own Shamanic view of things Defining a releigion is tricky. I don't know where a sect/cult would end and a full religion begin. Is it the number of followers or how widespread it is maybe?

01-27-2002, 06:27 PM	#148
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	quote: Originally posted by Lord Shield: Speak for yourself . I'm British and don't share your viewpoint entirely, especially given my own Shamanic view of things Defining a releigion is tricky. I don't know where a sect/cult would end and a full religion begin. Is it the number of followers or how widespread it is maybe? The definition for cult was vague, but sect said this: sect: Pronunciation: 'sekt Function: noun Etymology: Middle English secte, from Middle French & Late Latin & Latin; Middle French, group, sect, from Late Latin secta organized ecclesiastical body, from Latin, course of action, way of life, probably from sectari to pursue, frequentative of sequi to follow Date: 14th century 1 a : a dissenting or schismatic religious body; especially : one regarded as extreme or heretical b : a religious denomination 2 archaic : SEX 1 3 a : a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader I prefer definition 1 that I bolded. A sect is relative to the religion it branches away from. Jehovahs Witnesses is considered a sect by every other christian denomination for example, because it's doctrine and practice is fundamentally different to mainline christianity. A cult on the other hand, need not be affiliated with any major religion, but is centred around a personality. A leader. Normally that leader excercises considerable mental control of the adherants, much, much more than a Guru, Yogi, Priest, Monk, Pastor or spiritual mentor would. It is both the controlling aspect, and the pivotal personality that end up defining a cult, ala David Koresh's Branch Davidian, Rev. Sun Moon's 'Moonies' and the 'Orange People' to name a few.... well barely any really I suppose you could call Al Qa'eda a cultlike sect using those definitions. Thus Paganism is not a cult. It is not even a religion, but a grouping of various religions and beliefs of similar ethos and worldview under one umbrella definition. __________________ http://www.hughwilson.com

02-05-2002, 09:12 AM	#149
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 61 Posts: 3,257	BUMPED for K T Ong. [ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ] __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Religion in Schools	Cerek the Barbaric	General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)	71	05-29-2003 08:50 PM
Religion???	Gromnir	General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)	8	12-15-2002 04:17 PM
Religion	Callum Kerr	General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)	212	12-05-2002 10:07 AM
Religion II	Cerek the Barbaric	General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)	78	02-11-2002 10:46 AM
God and religion-what's it all about?	Tuor	General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)	42	10-11-2001 01:46 PM