The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

[Melusine]

Funny how most of you are talking about "they" were tricked and "they" disobeyed. Whatever happened to Original Sin? LOL don't get me wrong I am very pleasantly surprised, and I would be the last one saying that Eve was to blame, but I've had to listen to so many people telling the story fro a male perspective: Adam was seduced by his evil wife and thus fell from grace. You know what I always answer them? Right. So the serpent (Satan) tempts Eve to eat from the fruit, which she does. She herself then convinces Adam to do the same. Now, I'm asking you, who sounds like a more devious opponent? A "mere" woman or the bloody ArchLiar himself??? I've always seen Adam as the weaker one. He could be persuaded to eat the fruit by his wife, while God had expressly forbidden it. Eve however was persuaded by the Devil, with who knows how many nasty psychological warfare-tricks up his sleeve!!

Dio, I'd be really interested in hearing your theory...
I once used this story at university, when writing an essay about two novels (Atwood's Alias Grace and Banks's The Wasp Factory). The theme the essay was to concentrate on was "One is not born a woman, one becomes a woman" (adapted from Simone de Beauvoir) I could post that introduction here if I could find it but it may be a bit too long. Anyway please let us hear your theory, fascinating thread this is!!

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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH
and the HADB &
Sultry Elflet

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Melusine: I've always seen Adam as the weaker one. He could be persuaded to eat the fruit by his wife, while God had expressly forbidden it. Eve however was persuaded by the Devil, with who knows how many nasty psychological warfare-tricks up his sleeve!!

Ah yes. What man can refuse either the charms (or nagging) of a woman?
I love it that Adam then casts blame on everyone but himself:
"This WOMAN, that YOU gave me...."

I think they gained the knowledge, not from the fruit itself, but from the action. He could have called anything the "object" or "action" of knowledge of good and evil. It was in sinning that they gained the concept of sin: the negative - and obedience: the positive. Prior to that they just were. I think the fall was part of the plan. If Adam hadn't someone else would have. By having the fall we needed forgiveness. In Gods forgiveness and sacrifice we see love. More than if we hadn't fallen.

I mean come on. Would you put a child in a room with candy and seriously expect none to go missing?



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

I think the idea is to say ignorance is bliss. Beacuse people who learn a lot may question their religious beliefs and when the bible was written it was in the best interests of christianity to keep the vast majority of people ignorant and in thrall to their religion. one of the reasons why christianity became so popular was due to its wholehearted support of slavery.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: I think the idea is to say ignorance is bliss. Beacuse people who learn a lot may question their religious beliefs and when the bible was written it was in the best interests of christianity to keep the vast majority of people ignorant and in thrall to their religion. one of the reasons why christianity became so popular was due to its wholehearted support of slavery.

But why was the majority of the Bible written before Christianity existed?

Reading.... reading....Hmmm yes, yes, You're right by Jove! I am a Christian because I enjoy being a slave! How could I have not seen this!?
I'm so glad I read this post. Now I can question everything, and get really sad becasue I've been living in blissful ignorance.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Yorick: But why was the majority of the Bible written before Christianity existed? Reading.... reading....Hmmm yes, yes, You're right by Jove! I am a Christian because I enjoy being a slave! How could I have not seen this!? I'm so glad I read this post. Now I can question everything, and get really sad becasue I've been living in blissful ignorance.

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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH
and the HADB &
Sultry Elflet

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[Melusine]

BTW guys, let's not steer another great and fascinating thread offtopic, 'kay?

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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH
and the HADB &
Sultry Elflet

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

well if you look at the letter to philemon paul sends the runaway slave which he converted back to his master(hardly a good act) and this is exactly what paul says
"Everyone should remain in the state in which he was called.Were you a slave when you were called? Never mind. But if you Can gain your freedom, make use of your present condition Instead.For he who is called in the lord as a slave is a freedman of the lord.Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of christ."(1 Cor.7?,20-22)

Most christian readers of the bible are hardly conscious of the monsteruous cynacism underlying these words. By means of a verbal attack worthy of a crooked horse dealer- giveing a double meaning to the two concepts slave and freedman- those who are already oppresed are completly taken in. BY virtue of the religious fiction that they are already freedmen of christ, these factual slave are persuaded that that they really ought to be indiffrent to their lack of freedom. Paul at the same times names the slave owner the slave of christ and thus draws a veil over the existing injustice of slavery, which is justified as gods will. Also i did not say you became a chrsitian because you want to be a slave that is misreading my meaning, you may have not known how christanity supported slavery.




[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Melusine: BTW guys, let's not steer another great and fascinating thread offtopic, 'kay?

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[DragonMage]

Oh, goody, Larry - a riddle! I love to solve riddles, puzzles or take other researchable challenges! Let me look into this a little as I'm unfamiliar with that quote.

Also, I agree with the comments about it being part of the Plan. After all, for those of us who believe in Him - God is, God was and God ever shall be. He is omniscient and omnipresent - he knew before they did it what they would do. But there were still consequences to that action of disobedience. Just like today, if we do what we are supposed to do and what we know is right in the eyes of God, we are "rewarded" (wether it be just a good feeling for what we have done or some other nice thing or miracle in our lives). If we do something that God disapproves of, there are like consequences - maybe it won't affect us now, but sooner or later, any misdeed catches up with us. (uh-oh, I'm starting to sound a little Catholic here!)

But overall, I agree with the sentiment of it being in the Plan and that we could not have progressed otherwise. God wanted us to freely choose Him, not be forced into it, so he made sure we would have that choice.


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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

[This message has been edited by DragonMage (edited 09-08-2001).]

[onthepequod]

Originally posted by Melusine: Funny how most of you are talking about "they" were tricked and "they" disobeyed. Whatever happened to Original Sin?

Thank you for making this point Melusine (although I don't think I understand your point about their disobedience). It was original sin! They weren't tricked. They only had one rule to obey.

Oh and BTW, it was obviously completely Eve's fault. Just kidding. Adam only had himself to blame and was cowardly in his attempt to impute Eve for his shortcomings.



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