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Old 04-27-2003, 10:04 PM   #1
thoon
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: April 5, 2002
Location: U.S.
Posts: 30
Just finished, and I wonder what other people think. I looked around
the board and some links, and find that I actually bought a game-
building kit and a potential on-line (ahem) experience. Neither look
very interesting so I'll stick to this game.

For what it's worth, I'm one who thinks w7/w8, W&W, PS:T are the best games of the last decade, with BG a little ways behind. I enjoyed ID, but lost interest towards the end and didn't finish. Couldn't get into
BG2. I like the kind of fighting where one has to figure out a strategy
and to win, and through the game explore all the aspects of one's character (or lose).

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I played all the way through as a female elven bard with Daelen Red Tiger
(barbarian) as a sidekick. This worked very well ... at different stages
in the game, different abilities were the most important, but I always
had what I needed. She was a wicked fighter with the fey spear+2 and
the composite longbow+3 !


For the game as a whole, the graphics are the best yet with the zoom being very nice. The developers are to be congratulated on getting
naturalistic movement, usually the bane of 3d renderings. Nonetheless, I much prefer the first-person point of view. The sound (and visual) effects are excellent, the music good, and the voice acting really sucks.

The plot was sufficient; as for character development ... oh well.

My major playing criticisms may actually be criticisms of the bioware engine:
1. The fighting is too fast, and (with my video card) jerky.
2. You can't really control your henchman or familiar. Several places
I actually had to dismiss Daelen temporarily.
3. Darkness and thunderstorms (excellent thunderstorms) may add nice
realism, but you can't see.

My fighting experience thus was too often the sight of Daelan and my familiar rushing off the screen, and me reading about the fight on the
dialog section. Or me hearing the sound effects and seeing the writing, but unable to make out what was going on. Finger speed is too important
too ... nearly broke my space bar.

All this took out a lot of the fun.

I started out intending to walk through as a goody two-shoes and not
really exert myself too much. I just took the recommended selections when I leveled up ( a nice option). I also didn't pay much attention to
the various attributes etc., at least not at first. I played at the 'normal' difficulty setting.

As far as the actual game goes, the first two chapters ... actually
four I guess .. were ... well ... tepid. Go here and get this. Now go there and get that. And NOW go over THERE and get THAT. Yawn. Oh, don't forget to save the world. All the fights were easy ... maybe three or four I had to try more than once. One good one with the mind-monster
who could move to another body. I thought there was another when I was swarmed by dire spiders in the zoo, but no. You weren't even supposed to fight the construct in the mage's tower. I liked the village lost in time, the lost crypt of an ancient civilization, and the warrior who woke up to find himself forgotten ... had to take the right potion to get that one!

Even though the graphics were well-done (expertly, I would say), there
were few places where I stopped just to look. Nice work with mist above
wateralls, and some fog, but that's about it. And I just don't want to
see very many pseudo-medieval villages or cities however well done.

Chapter three was different and much better. Several very nice dungeons,
tough fights, interesting premises, and the closest to a puzzle the game
has. The Red dragon took several tries! But (typical) the big prize was a set of Red Dragon Armor ... which a Bard can't wear! I particularly liked the fact that you could get the word of power and skip the fight if it proved too tough. Should have been more of those. If the whole game had been like
Chapter 3, it would have exceeded ID as a fighting game, and with a better
plot, though still not much character development.

Chapter 4 was also good, but very linear, and short too. I had trouble with the two dragons, mainly because I tried to pop in and out of the portal, but got afflicted with a fear spell every time I came through.
Finally I juiced myself up with all the will I could find ... amulets, etc. so I could resist the spell, and after that they weren't so tough after all. The final fight with Morag took some thinking.

Finally, I have to say the game seems to have been 'dumbed down' for the
beginner or inexpert. The stone of recall, rest almost any time, everything you need is right there ... not very demanding. Not to mention immortal henchman, prescient automap, etc. I am no gameplaying Ace, and when I get through one of these without needing a
single hint and with no real trouble winning all the fights ... well,
it's not that difficult a game. Not nearly difficult enough.

I don't mean to be as negative as the above may sound. The game is
fun and worth playing. I might even try it again as a solo rogue or
something ... what's fun?

I also missed a number of quests especially at the first, mainly because
I didn't ask. Perhaps someone can tell me about these:

1. In chapter 1, Oleff asks to have three artifacts from a famous warrior found in a tomb. I found them, but he wouldn't recognise that I had them when I went back, and I never found the warriors tomb. What did I miss?

2. There was a crypt in the graveyard I could never open, as well as a door in the basement of a house (secret entrance behind a bookshelf) I couldn't open. What did I miss ?

3. In chapter 2 I must have missed a section somewhere. I only found one lever for the fantabulous confabulator, and never the device. Where is it? I also wonder if it could be used to make adamantite?

I also ended up with a number of items but no clue as to what they are for. Perhaps someone could help:

1. Prism tree seed
2. corpse hand
3. Masterson family Amulet
4. toy top
5 evil dagger

and some others.

Well, I just finished the game and want to talk about it. I would really like to know what other people think.

And also I would welcome a suggestion for the next game or one of these 'mods' that's worth playing.

Thoon the finished.
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Old 04-28-2003, 07:15 PM   #2
Nerull
Lord Ao
 

Join Date: May 17, 2001
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 2,069
I thought it was alright, but I like the BG series much better (and PS:T, too). I did not like the fact that you could not control the henchman (there is a mod out there that allows you to set the script for the henchman, so that they act more in line with what you want them to do), or that you could only have one henchman. I agree that Chapter 3 was the best chapter; that's the only one where I got lost in the game, and was sad to see it go. Character development I felt was almost non-existant. I think Legolas put it perfectly on several posts of his: "The game is for creating mods, and the official campaign is just to show what it can do." (paraphrasing on the spur of the moment, sorry Legolas!).

SPOILER
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The stuff you missed involving the crypts, the bookcase, etc. is Oleff's quest. You talk to him, and get him to give you the quest. Then talk to Aribeth, and ask her if she has heard anything about the missing creatures. She will point you in the direction of the Peninsula District. Once you finish that, she will point you to the other 3, in a certain order (Beggar's Nest, Blacklake, Docks). You don't have to do the districts in this order, but it helps to start with the Peninsula District if you are doing Oleff's quest (just so you do not have to backtrack through the other districts to go back to the missing locations).

In the Peninsula District, one of the (unmarked) houses has a guard in it. Find that house, and in the basement is the first tomb. In the chest in there, there are three useless items. These are the keys to open the other three tombs. The other tombs are:

Beggar's Nest-the crypt in the graveyard that you could not open

Blacklake-behind the bookcase you could not get behind (***WATCH OUT FOR THE SWORDS OF NEVER*** I cannot emphasize that enough; that is a very difficult fight at your level at the time)

Docks-in the sewers (have to look hard to find the door)

In each case, there is a chest outside the door. Look in the chest, and there is a hint as to the item that needs to be put in the chest to open the door (there is no penalty for messing up, so you could just put each one in one at a time until the door opens).

You can go back to Oleff after getting each item from the above tombs, or go all at once (I recommend going back after each tomb, as some of the items are heavy). After you get the last item, save your game before talking to him. You get one shot at persuading him to give you a greater reward; you get adamantine if you get a greater reward out of him).

The pieces of the device in Luskan are hard to find (it took me a while, too!). However, as a helpful hint (since I don't remember the quest that well), one of the pieces is not in the sewer, if I remember right. Tear the city up, you will find the pieces.

Hope that helps!
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Old 04-28-2003, 09:44 PM   #3
thoon
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: April 5, 2002
Location: U.S.
Posts: 30
Thanks very much for the response. I feel a little better about Chapter 1
since I missed only one quest instead of several. I don't feel all that good though, because I had the three 'useless' items, and actually saw the hints and made the connection, but didn't think to put the item in the chest.

I guess they didn't dumb it down quite as much as I thought.

thoon
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:54 PM   #4
Nerull
Lord Ao
 

Join Date: May 17, 2001
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally posted by thoon:
Thanks very much for the response. I feel a little better about Chapter 1
since I missed only one quest instead of several. I don't feel all that good though, because I had the three 'useless' items, and actually saw the hints and made the connection, but didn't think to put the item in the chest.

I guess they didn't dumb it down quite as much as I thought.

thoon
That's okay, everyone misses a few the first time through.
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:29 AM   #5
thoon
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: April 5, 2002
Location: U.S.
Posts: 30
yep, worked just as you said, at least in the Blacklake district. I didn't fnd the fight with the blades very tough though ... my second idea worked. Also, I was at level seven in that savegame, maybe a little high.

Thanks again

thoon
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Old 04-30-2003, 03:04 PM   #6
RoryD
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Join Date: March 11, 2003
Location: England
Age: 33
Posts: 29
The editor is very powerful and online is GREAT. I'd atleast experiment with those a little as personally I loved both!
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Old 04-30-2003, 11:59 PM   #7
thoon
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: April 5, 2002
Location: U.S.
Posts: 30
RoryD: I did try the editor a little (made a room with a door). I also looked over the scripting language. To be honest, it looks to me like an awful lot of learning and work before you get anything worth having.

How does the online work? Are you fighting against the other online players or cooperating, or what? My other online experiences have been poor (and short) because I like to stop and think and I have, um, low finger speed.

thoon
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Old 05-01-2003, 04:50 AM   #8
Target
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Join Date: April 1, 2003
Location: The Midlands
Posts: 1,571
I enjoyed the game, it was my first RPG I’d played in a while…use to play Dungeon Master and the Eye of the beholder series…Was a nice one to get back into gaming. However I didn’t like the fact you could only have one henchy, I prefer the games where you have a party and more character development. There also seemed to be a lot of having to talk to people, which I found broke up the flow of the game a bit. I wanted to be off exploring and fighting not walking round a town chatting, I know it’s part of all RPG’s but to much can get a little dull.

Having said that, it was a good game, especially the third chapter (Do I see a pattern here???) the graphics were good, and story was not that bad. I played with a Dwarf Barbarian usually with the thief, can’t remember the name my first time through, and nearly finished with a solo Elven Monk before I discovered Wizardry 8. Now that’s a good game!!

As for those bits you found, I’ll try and remember what I did with them.

1. Prism tree seed – I think you had to plant that when you went back in time, so in the present it flowered and you could give the seed to someone

2. corpse hand – can’t remember, think it was to open something

3. Masterson family Amulet – was a quest from the Masterson family in the docks (I think) to get it back for them, get some XP.

4. toy top – can’t remember this one

5 evil dagger – does not ring any bells either.

I think most of the items we for one or two small side quests, where you get a few XP, and maybe an item or two.
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Old 05-01-2003, 06:09 AM   #9
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Thinking about it, I think the hand goes to one of the henchys, the monk I belive, in one of the chapters after sitting through their bable he says he needs the hand for his 'order' or someting, its the same withthe feather, and a few other things, the toy thing could be the same, can't remember.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-01-2003, 12:43 PM   #10
RoryD
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Join Date: March 11, 2003
Location: England
Age: 33
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally posted by thoon:
RoryD: I did try the editor a little (made a room with a door). I also looked over the scripting language. To be honest, it looks to me like an awful lot of learning and work before you get anything worth having.

How does the online work? Are you fighting against the other online players or cooperating, or what? My other online experiences have been poor (and short) because I like to stop and think and I have, um, low finger speed.

thoon
Online has three modes: No PvP(Completly working together, no one can damage other players) Party PvP(Working with party members) and Full PvP(Everyone can hurt everyone else). Also, some modules are for duels and fighting, while some are for co-operation. So basicaly, it all depends on which server you're on.
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