NO DM Client for NWN2? (There goes NWN2)

[robertthebard]

Actually, if you drink the Kool-Aid, it's supposed to be better. Better graphics, maybe, but that doesn't make a better game. Now, even if they left the rest of the game engine alone, and added some cool stuff with those graphics, it might be. But to take parts of the game that were integral to the initial game, and even just disregard them enough to release them as a patch, instead of on the disc is an insult to the original game.

[SpiritWarrior]

Well, anything that is released as a patch is going to be pure and utter shite. If it is distributed in patch form that is the companys way of saying they don't have the money for it but just threw (edit) it in on the side to shut the fans up. Expect incomplete content that will never even get a second look, nevermind a patch.

[ 07-10-2006, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

[WOLFGIR]

How very interesting this thread became all of a sudden. OE goes to be not a new gaming company but the renowned sequal-making company LOL. I have flowers that have lived longer then Obsidian has as a company! And that isn't a mean feat even by my standards and the amount of really black coffee they get every now and then

For OE and Atari to get some "love" they need to realize that they are now naming something 2, and what we see so far is something that is less then 1. Honestly, I had more or less gotten around to the idea that oki, a lvl 20 cap to begin with and then sequals. I think that the 4 classes maximum i still stupid and that there shouldn't be any such restrictions. Why? Simply cause every so called munchkin multiclassed character can be killed by a careful planned straight fighter and a good head on the shoulders of the player. Also, multiple classes also lessens the level gameplay somewhat.

I think that it is a "sloppy" thing to do by putting up alot of tools for download. I mean, comeon, give it to us, we expect it. It is you who choose to continue the money grubbing by making it Neverwinter nights 2, and you chose to not let BioWare continue the game, so we got standards and we have seen what OE has managed so far, and we all know what Atari do

Nwn has lived on mostly or even solely on the content that is fan based. To piss in that mugg is plain stupid. Sure we all know that NWN 2 will probably be playable for like 50% out of the box, threads will "BROKEN!" and "Über" will riddle the internet and several topics regarding hide in plain sight or backstabbing and how clerics are this or that will continue to flow AND if Atari and OE survives; we might see a full game in about oh a year or so?

Now we just have to wait two years before OE and Atari drops the annoying copyprotection that will make 35% really pissed and 100% of the Auzzie players wonder what the **** is wrong with Atari...

Scepcism is good. to question is also good, to whine and moan are trademarks of not being listened to and being fearful. Now NWN 2 is out and they invented som stupid fighter wizard class, and it isn't Eldricht knight, nor is it a true bladesinger.. *sigh* Runequest do look tempting, oh say isn't that a copy of KULT lying over there...

[Ziroc]

Exactly. You would THINK a sequel would have MORE options instead of less than the first! LOL it's pathetic.


It's like buying a new car, and they have a recall, just to remove some options.. lol..

piss. simply piss. Mark my words, if they release what I have seen 'as is' NWN2 will be destroyed in the press.

[robertthebard]

The press isn't what will kill them. It's the forums that will. A lot of people are waiting to see how bad it bombs, if it does. I mean, there is a chance that they can pull off a decent product, slim maybe, but a chance. The thing is, they are down to the wire now on actual work on it, as it's going to have to go Gold pretty soon, maybe the middle of next month? That's what it's going to take to get the cd/dvd media produced, packaged and ready to ship. Not looking good for the home team.

[Ziroc]

But remember, the last month is nothing but sending out the gold, and it being checked and going to mass production.. that takes the last month. So, who knows..

[robertthebard]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, at least 30 days, between final bugging and getting it pressed, and during the pressing process, any changes will be a patch. I really hope it doesn't suck, but I'm having my doubts.

[Attalus]

LOL, you didn't like the ones in PS: T? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by SpiritWarrior: Well, anything that is released as a patch is going to be pure and utter shite. If it is distributed in patch form that is the companys way of saying they don't have the money for it but just threw (edit) it in on the side to shut the fans up. Expect incomplete content that will never even get a second look, nevermind a patch.

That's ludicrous! Buying into that argument, I would expect that you didn't update the original NWN ONCE! Sorry SW, but providing content (even the DM client) via a download (or patch if you prefer) does NOT imply that it will be $hit. For pete's sake, the CEP is one huge big download and nobody calls THAT $hit. I swear I don't understand WHY people are making such a HUGE issue about having the DM CLient available via download!

Originally posted by Ziroc: Exactly. You would THINK a sequel would have MORE options instead of less than the first! LOL it's pathetic. It's like buying a new car, and they have a recall, just to remove some options.. lol.. piss. simply piss. Mark my words, if they release what I have seen 'as is' NWN2 will be destroyed in the press.

The car analogy MIGHT hold if you had been PROMISED the options in the first place, but I don't recall EVER seeing Obsidian PROMISE to make NWN2 an EXACT copy of NWN with upgraded graphics. Whether the NWN community EXPECTED it to be is a different issue.

Originally posted by SHO-VA: ..snip.. They have said, At this point every player of a PW, will have to dl the entire Mod to play it. That isnt good for anyone, the builders who like to keep things unknown untill played, or for making updates to the PW, as every time the PW updates, the players will have to re-dl the mod again. They have made several statements to the allowable size of Mods, and that they will be much smaller than NWN allows. take it all in, and it doesnt look good for the Multi play aspect. At least, NWN2 multi-play, will be nothing like NWN. for the other part of your question, there are lots of PWs up and running now, Some full, some empty, some with just a few players. there are 1000s of registered multi-player accounts on gamespy. However no one, not bio-ware, atari, or obsidion knows how many bought NWN for what reason, as there was never a survey for why it was bought included with it. There wasnt one included in the registration either. They assume its for the SP. .. snip ..

Okay, so multiplayer will be supported, there will be a DM Client and a toolset and custom content will be available. Modules will be limited to 30 areas or so, which isn't necessarily a BAD thing in and of itself, but Persistent Worlds will suffer.

So WHAT! I can understand WHY the designers of PW's would feel annoyed, angry, slighted, pissed off - pick any verb you choose here, it doesn;t really matter; but I'm sorry if I am NOT sympathetic to the PW community complaints.

To EXPECT a game company to PROVIDE something that they make ZERO profit off of just to placate a minority of the game owners, a VOCAL minority to be sure, but a MINORITY nonetheless, is ridiculous. If your only REAL complaint is that PW's will suffer, when all of the other content that you seem to value WILL be included (the issue of its quality notwithstanding), then your arguments seem to be very narrow.

NOW, I will concede that the QUALITY of what Obsidian is going to provide has YET to be proven, and the doomsayers amongst you may INDEED proved to be right, and OE will provide us product as buggy and twitchy as Troika did with TOEE. If that's the case, you WILL have won your argument, but NOT because of the slight over PW support. THAT argument, imho, is far to narrow focused to condemn the entire product over it's exclusion.

As always, you are free to exercise your right NOT to buy the game, and I expect that all of you will choose to do that.

[robertthebard]

That has been my intent since I started reading about these things. Just a note; by definition, a sequel is an extension of the original, only better. Wasn't Baldur's Gate 2 better than 1? Had more stuff, and more to do as well. Granted they had to do fixes, but that's to be expected.

When you release a game to be a sequel to another game, you don't drop all the features that made it cool. As I have already noted, PW support was initially done by the community for NWN's. However, the same problems that face PW builders/players face any who would play MP. All the people that wish to play, as it stands right now, will have to have the entire module downloaded, not just custom content, but the entire module. Imagine trying to do a project with the scope of Undermountain with that kind of limitations. I have HD space for it now, but I had to upgrade. It takes away from any online module, not just PW's. We don't even know if online modules will be possible, in the manner to which we have become accustomed, as we still have no answer about dedicated servers. Another thing that was already there, along with the DM client. Rideable mounts was promised, but they are out, and because they are out, Atari closed down any more modules to the online store at Bioware, because the DLA? team was releasing a mod with rideable horses/mounts. Now why block that content from saleable release, unless you are afraid it will take away from sales on your new product? What's so threatening about a community built module that would make Atari feel that way? Is it because, as has been suggested, that they know their product isn't up to what people that have been playing NWN's will expect? I'd say probably so, although I have no idea what the actual reasons are, and wouldn't care to venture a real guess.