5 to dawarfs, 3 to elves, 9 to humans, eh? Where did they go?

Aleksanr · 01-22-2002, 06:42 PM

Where did they go? and what did they do? And why didnt Saruman turn invisable when he had the ring and What powers does the one ring have, other than the bailty to turn people invisable, shrink and alter its shineyness?

Tancred · 01-22-2002, 07:42 PM

The three Elven-Rings were originally held by Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan (Lord of the Grey Havens, a western outpost of Elves beond the Shire); however, Cirdan's ring was given to Gandalf, Cirdan admitting that 'you'll need it more than I will'. Not that Gandalf ever wears it - that would reveal him to Sauron fully - but as Gandalf appears to have some affinity for fire in the book, and the ring he keeps is Narya - Ring of Fire - perhaps he gains something from it passively, just as Galadriel and Elrond do.
The seven Dwarf-Rings were lost; four of them were destroyed by dragonfire, as the Dwarf Lords tried to battle the Dragons that sought to take the dwarf gold hoards. Three of them Sauron has found, and he keeps them (one he took from Thorin's grandfather Thror, if any of you know 'The Hobbit').
The Nine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will.

As to why Sauron did not turn invisible... well, the Ring 'shifts' a person into the spirit realm, essentially. Hence why Elves appear to almost shine, Frodo can see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, and the real world seems shadowy. Sauron, being in essence a demigod, is a powerful spirit, perhaps his physical and spiritual forms are one and the same?

The One Ring's powers... who knows? Domination and control, the power to conquer - mainly. Had Aragorn taken the ring, for example, no doubt he would have raised the armies of Gondor and Rohan, and the surrounding realms to boot, and sought to invade Mordor to fight for mastership of Middle-Earth - only to become like a second Dark Lord in the Process. Who knows? Much of Sauron was in it, so eventually the Ring's main function is to turn whoever uses it into another Sauron... Frodo, Bilbo - even Gollum - were able to resist for so long because, as hobbits or hobbitlike folk, they did not dream of conquest, and because they had little or no strength of their own. The Ring is mentioned as 'giving power according to the measure of its' possessor'. This is, naturally, why Gandalf (and Galadriel)refused to take it, and why the possibility of Saruman gaining it would be terrible - as Wizards, the power they would gain would easily match Sauron's.

Sir Taliesin · 01-22-2002, 07:59 PM

That was a really great explaination! You are truly a Tolkien/Middlearth scholar. Your posts concerning the subject are always worth reading!!!

Tancred · 01-22-2002, 08:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Sir Taliesin:
That was a really great explaination! You are truly a Tolkien/Middlearth scholar. Your posts concerning the subject are always worth reading!!!<hr></blockquote>

Perhaps not truly a scholar... but I have a lot of friends who are. Their debates on whether Balrogs have wings, whether Elves have pointed ears or exactly HOW Sauron died are always fun to listen in on. The first time around, anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Larry_OHF · 01-22-2002, 10:11 PM

Wow!
I really enjoyed your explantion!
Is that what Gandalf yelled at the big demon when he was on the bridge? That he was the owner of the ring of Fire, thus proving his domination over the thing?

Kresselack · 01-23-2002, 07:46 AM

From my reading of the book I always thought that the one ring grants domination over people wearing other rings of power, it does'nt let you throw fireballs or cast any nice spells seems silly for Sauron to invest his power into something that can be destroyed.

Inmho a Dark Lord must never put try to win by betting on such high stake, I mean his army is already big enough to overpower his enemy isn't it?

Sir Byronas · 01-23-2002, 08:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Tancred:
The three Elven-Rings were originally held by Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan (Lord of the Grey Havens, a western outpost of Elves beond the Shire); however, Cirdan's ring was given to Gandalf, Cirdan admitting that 'you'll need it more than I will'. Not that Gandalf ever wears it - that would reveal him to Sauron fully - but as Gandalf appears to have some affinity for fire in the book, and the ring he keeps is Narya - Ring of Fire - perhaps he gains something from it passively, just as Galadriel and Elrond do.
The seven Dwarf-Rings were lost; four of them were destroyed by dragonfire, as the Dwarf Lords tried to battle the Dragons that sought to take the dwarf gold hoards. Three of them Sauron has found, and he keeps them (one he took from Thorin's grandfather Thror, if any of you know 'The Hobbit').
The Nine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will.

As to why Sauron did not turn invisible... well, the Ring 'shifts' a person into the spirit realm, essentially. Hence why Elves appear to almost shine, Frodo can see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, and the real world seems shadowy. Sauron, being in essence a demigod, is a powerful spirit, perhaps his physical and spiritual forms are one and the same?

The One Ring's powers... who knows? Domination and control, the power to conquer - mainly. Had Aragorn taken the ring, for example, no doubt he would have raised the armies of Gondor and Rohan, and the surrounding realms to boot, and sought to invade Mordor to fight for mastership of Middle-Earth - only to become like a second Dark Lord in the Process. Who knows? Much of Sauron was in it, so eventually the Ring's main function is to turn whoever uses it into another Sauron... Frodo, Bilbo - even Gollum - were able to resist for so long because, as hobbits or hobbitlike folk, they did not dream of conquest, and because they had little or no strength of their own. The Ring is mentioned as 'giving power according to the measure of its' possessor'. This is, naturally, why Gandalf (and Galadriel)refused to take it, and why the possibility of Saruman gaining it would be terrible - as Wizards, the power they would gain would easily match Sauron's.<hr></blockquote>

Man, you are the bewst! I didn't knew much about it! Great job!

Jafin · 01-23-2002, 03:59 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Tancred:
The three Elven-Rings were originally held by Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan (Lord of the Grey Havens, a western outpost of Elves beond the Shire); however, Cirdan's ring was given to Gandalf, Cirdan admitting that 'you'll need it more than I will'. Not that Gandalf ever wears it - that would reveal him to Sauron fully - but as Gandalf appears to have some affinity for fire in the book, and the ring he keeps is Narya - Ring of Fire - perhaps he gains something from it passively, just as Galadriel and Elrond do.
The seven Dwarf-Rings were lost; four of them were destroyed by dragonfire, as the Dwarf Lords tried to battle the Dragons that sought to take the dwarf gold hoards. Three of them Sauron has found, and he keeps them (one he took from Thorin's grandfather Thror, if any of you know 'The Hobbit').
The Nine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will.

As to why Sauron did not turn invisible... well, the Ring 'shifts' a person into the spirit realm, essentially. Hence why Elves appear to almost shine, Frodo can see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, and the real world seems shadowy. Sauron, being in essence a demigod, is a powerful spirit, perhaps his physical and spiritual forms are one and the same?

The One Ring's powers... who knows? Domination and control, the power to conquer - mainly. Had Aragorn taken the ring, for example, no doubt he would have raised the armies of Gondor and Rohan, and the surrounding realms to boot, and sought to invade Mordor to fight for mastership of Middle-Earth - only to become like a second Dark Lord in the Process. Who knows? Much of Sauron was in it, so eventually the Ring's main function is to turn whoever uses it into another Sauron... Frodo, Bilbo - even Gollum - were able to resist for so long because, as hobbits or hobbitlike folk, they did not dream of conquest, and because they had little or no strength of their own. The Ring is mentioned as 'giving power according to the measure of its' possessor'. This is, naturally, why Gandalf (and Galadriel)refused to take it, and why the possibility of Saruman gaining it would be terrible - as Wizards, the power they would gain would easily match Sauron's.<hr></blockquote>

Wow, mucho excellent post! And very accurate to boot! But as far as the owners of the elven rings go, didn't Gil-Galad have Quenya, until he died in the final battle between Sauron and the Last Alliance, at which point he gave it to Elrond? Either way Elrond's got it now!

-Jafin

Davros · 01-24-2002, 08:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jafin:

Wow, mucho excellent post! And very accurate to boot! But as far as the owners of the elven rings go, didn't Gil-Galad have Quenya, until he died in the final battle between Sauron and the Last Alliance, at which point he gave it to Elrond? Either way Elrond's got it now!

-Jafin<hr></blockquote>

Quick check of the Silmarillion section on rings and the 3rd age says that the elven rings were created "unsullied" by the touch of Sauron. No mention is made as to possession - that information was secret amongst the wise - Elrond founded Rivendell at roughly the same time, Gil-Galad was king certainly, but no mention of wielders. The section on the battle mentions Elrond and Cirdan rging isuldur to cast the one ring into Mt Doom, but couldn't find anything on the succession of Elven rings.
Any new info is welcome.

Tancred · 01-24-2002, 04:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Davros:

Quick check of the Silmarillion section on rings and the 3rd age says that the elven rings were created "unsullied" by the touch of Sauron. No mention is made as to possession - that information was secret amongst the wise - Elrond founded Rivendell at roughly the same time, Gil-Galad was king certainly, but no mention of wielders. The section on the battle mentions Elrond and Cirdan rging isuldur to cast the one ring into Mt Doom, but couldn't find anything on the succession of Elven rings.
Any new info is welcome.<hr></blockquote>

You're looking too far, Davros. I found this informaion in Lord of the Rings' Appendix B, the timeline section. In the paragraphs at the start of the timeline of the third it tells of the guardians of the three rings.
As for Gil-Galad, he did indeed own Vilya (not Quenya, that's the old Elven language), and passed it on to Elrond afore he died. I'm getting rusty, I am. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Tancred ]

01-22-2002, 06:42 PM	#1
Aleksanr Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 20, 2002 Location: Kent Posts: 41	Where did they go? and what did they do? And why didnt Saruman turn invisable when he had the ring and What powers does the one ring have, other than the bailty to turn people invisable, shrink and alter its shineyness? __________________ My sig

01-22-2002, 07:42 PM	#2
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	The three Elven-Rings were originally held by Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan (Lord of the Grey Havens, a western outpost of Elves beond the Shire); however, Cirdan's ring was given to Gandalf, Cirdan admitting that 'you'll need it more than I will'. Not that Gandalf ever wears it - that would reveal him to Sauron fully - but as Gandalf appears to have some affinity for fire in the book, and the ring he keeps is Narya - Ring of Fire - perhaps he gains something from it passively, just as Galadriel and Elrond do. The seven Dwarf-Rings were lost; four of them were destroyed by dragonfire, as the Dwarf Lords tried to battle the Dragons that sought to take the dwarf gold hoards. Three of them Sauron has found, and he keeps them (one he took from Thorin's grandfather Thror, if any of you know 'The Hobbit'). The Nine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will. As to why Sauron did not turn invisible... well, the Ring 'shifts' a person into the spirit realm, essentially. Hence why Elves appear to almost shine, Frodo can see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, and the real world seems shadowy. Sauron, being in essence a demigod, is a powerful spirit, perhaps his physical and spiritual forms are one and the same? The One Ring's powers... who knows? Domination and control, the power to conquer - mainly. Had Aragorn taken the ring, for example, no doubt he would have raised the armies of Gondor and Rohan, and the surrounding realms to boot, and sought to invade Mordor to fight for mastership of Middle-Earth - only to become like a second Dark Lord in the Process. Who knows? Much of Sauron was in it, so eventually the Ring's main function is to turn whoever uses it into another Sauron... Frodo, Bilbo - even Gollum - were able to resist for so long because, as hobbits or hobbitlike folk, they did not dream of conquest, and because they had little or no strength of their own. The Ring is mentioned as 'giving power according to the measure of its' possessor'. This is, naturally, why Gandalf (and Galadriel)refused to take it, and why the possibility of Saruman gaining it would be terrible - as Wizards, the power they would gain would easily match Sauron's. __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

01-22-2002, 07:59 PM	#3
Sir Taliesin Silver Dragon Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN USA Age: 60 Posts: 1,641	<font color=orange>That was a really great explaination! You are truly a Tolkien/Middlearth scholar. Your posts concerning the subject are always worth reading!!!</font> __________________ Sir Taliesin<br /><br />Hello... Good bye.

01-22-2002, 08:03 PM	#4
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: <font color=orange>That was a really great explaination! You are truly a Tolkien/Middlearth scholar. Your posts concerning the subject are always worth reading!!!</font><hr></blockquote> Perhaps not truly a scholar... but I have a lot of friends who are. Their debates on whether Balrogs have wings, whether Elves have pointed ears or exactly HOW Sauron died are always fun to listen in on. The first time around, anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

01-22-2002, 10:11 PM	#5
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	Wow! I really enjoyed your explantion! Is that what Gandalf yelled at the big demon when he was on the bridge? That he was the owner of the ring of Fire, thus proving his domination over the thing? __________________

01-23-2002, 07:46 AM	#6
Kresselack Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: November 7, 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 49	From my reading of the book I always thought that the one ring grants domination over people wearing other rings of power, it does'nt let you throw fireballs or cast any nice spells seems silly for Sauron to invest his power into something that can be destroyed. Inmho a Dark Lord must never put try to win by betting on such high stake, I mean his army is already big enough to overpower his enemy isn't it?

01-23-2002, 08:13 AM	#7
Sir Byronas Mephistopheles Join Date: October 2, 2001 Location: Greece Age: 35 Posts: 1,463	<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tancred: The three Elven-Rings were originally held by Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan (Lord of the Grey Havens, a western outpost of Elves beond the Shire); however, Cirdan's ring was given to Gandalf, Cirdan admitting that 'you'll need it more than I will'. Not that Gandalf ever wears it - that would reveal him to Sauron fully - but as Gandalf appears to have some affinity for fire in the book, and the ring he keeps is Narya - Ring of Fire - perhaps he gains something from it passively, just as Galadriel and Elrond do. The seven Dwarf-Rings were lost; four of them were destroyed by dragonfire, as the Dwarf Lords tried to battle the Dragons that sought to take the dwarf gold hoards. Three of them Sauron has found, and he keeps them (one he took from Thorin's grandfather Thror, if any of you know 'The Hobbit'). The Nine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will. As to why Sauron did not turn invisible... well, the Ring 'shifts' a person into the spirit realm, essentially. Hence why Elves appear to almost shine, Frodo can see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, and the real world seems shadowy. Sauron, being in essence a demigod, is a powerful spirit, perhaps his physical and spiritual forms are one and the same? The One Ring's powers... who knows? Domination and control, the power to conquer - mainly. Had Aragorn taken the ring, for example, no doubt he would have raised the armies of Gondor and Rohan, and the surrounding realms to boot, and sought to invade Mordor to fight for mastership of Middle-Earth - only to become like a second Dark Lord in the Process. Who knows? Much of Sauron was in it, so eventually the Ring's main function is to turn whoever uses it into another Sauron... Frodo, Bilbo - even Gollum - were able to resist for so long because, as hobbits or hobbitlike folk, they did not dream of conquest, and because they had little or no strength of their own. The Ring is mentioned as 'giving power according to the measure of its' possessor'. This is, naturally, why Gandalf (and Galadriel)refused to take it, and why the possibility of Saruman gaining it would be terrible - as Wizards, the power they would gain would easily match Sauron's.<hr></blockquote> Man, you are the bewst! I didn't knew much about it! Great job! __________________ <br />I\'ve searched the whole world and ended up back in Ironworks. Home sweet home!

01-23-2002, 03:59 PM	#8
Jafin Symbol of Cyric Join Date: May 24, 2001 Location: The Lands of Forever Age: 39 Posts: 1,132	<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tancred: The three Elven-Rings were originally held by Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan (Lord of the Grey Havens, a western outpost of Elves beond the Shire); however, Cirdan's ring was given to Gandalf, Cirdan admitting that 'you'll need it more than I will'. Not that Gandalf ever wears it - that would reveal him to Sauron fully - but as Gandalf appears to have some affinity for fire in the book, and the ring he keeps is Narya - Ring of Fire - perhaps he gains something from it passively, just as Galadriel and Elrond do. The seven Dwarf-Rings were lost; four of them were destroyed by dragonfire, as the Dwarf Lords tried to battle the Dragons that sought to take the dwarf gold hoards. Three of them Sauron has found, and he keeps them (one he took from Thorin's grandfather Thror, if any of you know 'The Hobbit'). The Nine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will. As to why Sauron did not turn invisible... well, the Ring 'shifts' a person into the spirit realm, essentially. Hence why Elves appear to almost shine, Frodo can see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, and the real world seems shadowy. Sauron, being in essence a demigod, is a powerful spirit, perhaps his physical and spiritual forms are one and the same? The One Ring's powers... who knows? Domination and control, the power to conquer - mainly. Had Aragorn taken the ring, for example, no doubt he would have raised the armies of Gondor and Rohan, and the surrounding realms to boot, and sought to invade Mordor to fight for mastership of Middle-Earth - only to become like a second Dark Lord in the Process. Who knows? Much of Sauron was in it, so eventually the Ring's main function is to turn whoever uses it into another Sauron... Frodo, Bilbo - even Gollum - were able to resist for so long because, as hobbits or hobbitlike folk, they did not dream of conquest, and because they had little or no strength of their own. The Ring is mentioned as 'giving power according to the measure of its' possessor'. This is, naturally, why Gandalf (and Galadriel)refused to take it, and why the possibility of Saruman gaining it would be terrible - as Wizards, the power they would gain would easily match Sauron's.<hr></blockquote> Wow, mucho excellent post! And very accurate to boot! But as far as the owners of the elven rings go, didn't Gil-Galad have Quenya, until he died in the final battle between Sauron and the Last Alliance, at which point he gave it to Elrond? Either way Elrond's got it now! -Jafin __________________ [img]\"http://publish.hometown.aol.com/wolviejon/myhomepage/new_sig_image.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Proprietor of the Boogre Bar<br />And this is Bob, Chief Mischief Preventer of the Boogre Bar <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[elf]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/elf.gif\" />

01-24-2002, 08:35 AM	#9
Davros Takhisis Follower Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Mandurah, West Australia Age: 60 Posts: 5,073	<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jafin: Wow, mucho excellent post! And very accurate to boot! But as far as the owners of the elven rings go, didn't Gil-Galad have Quenya, until he died in the final battle between Sauron and the Last Alliance, at which point he gave it to Elrond? Either way Elrond's got it now! -Jafin<hr></blockquote> Quick check of the Silmarillion section on rings and the 3rd age says that the elven rings were created "unsullied" by the touch of Sauron. No mention is made as to possession - that information was secret amongst the wise - Elrond founded Rivendell at roughly the same time, Gil-Galad was king certainly, but no mention of wielders. The section on the battle mentions Elrond and Cirdan rging isuldur to cast the one ring into Mt Doom, but couldn't find anything on the succession of Elven rings. Any new info is welcome. __________________ Davros was right - just ask JD

01-24-2002, 04:32 PM	#10
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Davros: Quick check of the Silmarillion section on rings and the 3rd age says that the elven rings were created "unsullied" by the touch of Sauron. No mention is made as to possession - that information was secret amongst the wise - Elrond founded Rivendell at roughly the same time, Gil-Galad was king certainly, but no mention of wielders. The section on the battle mentions Elrond and Cirdan rging isuldur to cast the one ring into Mt Doom, but couldn't find anything on the succession of Elven rings. Any new info is welcome.<hr></blockquote> You're looking too far, Davros. I found this informaion in Lord of the Rings' Appendix B, the timeline section. In the paragraphs at the start of the timeline of the third it tells of the guardians of the three rings. As for Gil-Galad, he did indeed own Vilya (not Quenya, that's the old Elven language), and passed it on to Elrond afore he died. I'm getting rusty, I am. [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Tancred ]</p> __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

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