IWD2 Party Formation

[Dancing Virginia]

I've misplaced my IWD1 CD so I loaded up IWD2 today and I'm going to start playing through that in the interim.

I want to build a good, solid party for a first time through and would like some advice on what has worked for all of you in the past. Please include some info on minimum points for attributes and the like.

Also interested in a good strategy for multi-/dual- classing. I started my IWD1 party very fighter heavy and then DC-ed five of my six character party to diversify once they had sufficient fighter levels for decent HP.

There seems to be a lot more variety in this game than in IWD1 and I want to make sure I maximize my options. Keeping in mind that I am a self admitted "power gamer" and not much of a "role player" per se, I would welcome your thoughts.

Someone (was it Aerich?) gave me a FANTASTIC tutorial for character and party building about two years ago. It was soooo helpful and I'm hoping to get similar feedback this time around.

Thanks!
Cary

[Aerich]

Oh, so I have to meet my own standard, hey?

Party building is a huge topic, even more so in IWD2 because of the multiclassing rules, skills, and feats. I'll do my best to give a decent overview, a sample party, and the reasons for the choices I've made. To narrow the scope, this sample party is NOT built for HoF; IWD2 HoF is different from HoF in IWD/HoW, and can lead to more extreme party-building choices.

IWD2 has as much combat or more as IWD/HoW, so fighting tactics are critical. The spell-trap/killzone tactics that work well in IWD1 also work well here. I like to use a high AC, magic resistant (e.g. drow, deep gnome, and/or high level monk) tank to make things easier. There's nothing more satisfying than dropping nasty spells on a surrounded tank that evades or resists all your spells while the enemies drop like flies.

Here's some general tips:

*Every character must have a ranged weapon; spread out the types (bow, crossbow, sling).
*In general, it's better to have even-integer stats, because stat modifiers go up on the evens (e.g. +2 at 14-15, +3 at 16-17)
*Improved Initiative is a "broken" feat - don't take it, because it has absolutely no effect
*Improved Critical is fantastic for non-spellcasters, increasing your chance to critical hit and do more damage
*Spellcasters should have (Greater) Spell Focus feats that correspond to what they are likely to cast; you won't take GSF: Transmutation very often with a sorceror, but it's ideal for a druid. Clerics with GSF: Enchantment are useful.
*Every caster needs the skill Concentration because it lessens the chance of having spells disrupted.
*Don't drain a character's Wis even if it isn't "required" for the character; low Wis penalizes Will saving throws. The only exception is if your character has good magic resistance.

Here's what I think you need for a low-hassle party:

*A diplomat (e.g. a character with good dialogue skills); you can get information, quests, and XP if you have a good talker
*Rogue skills (primarily disable device, search, and open locks); you can get by with limited rogue skills, but I find it a PITA
*Wilderness Lore; there's one area where this skill prevents a lot of frustration
*Dedicated Good or Neutral cleric; IWD2 clerics are superior to their IWD/HoW counterparts, and good and neutral alignments can shift memorized spells to healing spells, allowing MUCH more flexibility
*Dedicated sorceror; sorcerors are fantastic spellbombers
*A "defensive" tank (high AC and saves, magic resistance); allows for more aggressive yet less risky spell use.

-------------------------------------

Here's what I would suggest for a party - bear in mind it's open to tweaking.

1) Half-orc Fighter4/Barbarian - melee monster; Max Str and Con, good Dex and Wis, Int and Cha don't matter at all; use two-handed weapons most of the time for the damage bonus (1.5x your normal Str bonus when using a two-handed weapon). Four levels of fighter allows weapon specialization; take fighter levels after you've attained a few (anywhere from 5-11) barbarian levels. Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus/Specialization (polearm or axe is best for this character, IMO), Improved Critical, Heroic Inspiration, Dodge, Iron Will. Skills: Wilderness Lore.

2) Deep Gnome Monk - scout, defensive tank; this character has to be buffed, especially at low levels, but is capable of a very good AC. Tactically, it should lead the party into combat zones and take/avoid the majority of the melee punishment. You can also use it's speed to charge down enemy archers or casters. Max Dex and Wis, high-ish Str and Con. Drain Int and Cha. If you really want a good AC and are willing to sacrifice HP and significant offensive effectiveness, take enough points off of Str and Con to get 13 Int for the Expertise feat. Feats: Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Improved Critical and Power Attack, Cleave, and/or Expertise as stats permit. Skills: Hide, Move Silently

3) Tiefling Ranger/Rogue or Fighter/Rogue - rogue, scout, archer, and backup melee fighter. Max Dex, high Str, Con, Int; the Rgr/Ro gets free dual-wielding and is better for skill distribution (bump Search and stealth on ranger levels, and rogue-specific skills on rogue levels), the Ftr/Ro gets more feats and therefore is potentially better in combat. Feats: Rapid Shot, Dodge, Expertise, Improved Critical, maybe Weapon Finesse or saving throw boosters. Take all the rogue skills, maxing out Disable Device and Search, in particular. Skip Use Magic Device if you are lowish on skill points.

4) Human or Aasimar Cleric - healer, buffer; Human does not have an ECL penalty, Aasimar has a -1 in return for +2 Wis. Max Wis, good Con. There are a few ways you can go with a cleric - you can go for a battle cleric (Max Wis, Str and Con, Tempus is a good choice - if choosing Tempus here, the Ftr/Barb should use *edit: Polearm or Great Sword* as it's main weapon), an anti-undead cleric (Max Wis, good Cha - I wouldn't recommend this because the undead in IWD2 are wimpy compared to IWD1), or a support cleric (Max Wis, good Con, rest is matter of preference). I can give a breakdown of the clerical orders later, if necessary. Ilmater and Bane have small quests. If you choose an order requiring a LG alignment, consider taking two levels of paladin (for ability to use the paladin sword and Aura of Courage); if you plan on taking paladin levels, consider bumping up your Cha a bit to take advantage of the Cha-modifier-dependent saving throw bonuses.

5) Human Sorceror - dedicated bomber, diplomat. Max Cha, decent Int, Con, Dex; skills in diplomacy, bluff, intimidate, concentration, and spellcraft. Feats in Spell Focus (evocation first, then enchantment and/or necromancy) and the elemental feats; Expertise can be useful if you get forced into melee. Pick your spells carefully, because you can't change them.

6) Wizard - pick whatever race you want; human gets extra skill points and a feat, non-ECL races advance quickly, tiefling and drow get Int bonus but take ECL penalty. This character's purpose is to cast whatever spells your sorceror cannot. Max Int, good Con and Dex. Feats: Spell Focus feats, elemental feats. Skills: Concentration, Spellcraft, Alchemy, Knowledge Arcana

[ 05-13-2007, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[Dancing Virginia]

Thanks for the great information. That seems like a very well balanced party. Of course that doesn't mean much coming from someone who needs as much help as I do.

Aerich, you are brilliant at knowing all of these stats off the top of your head. Or do you cheat? Anyway, will use all of this information in my build. And will prolly play through a second time once I understand all of the details. It is quit a bit more complicated than IWD1, eh?

[Aerich]

Yes, the building/planning process is more complicated - but you can still have a good party without planning every last iota.

I have a ridiculously retentive memory, and it's filled with all sorts of details that are no help in real life. I hate giving bad advice, so I will look up stuff if I'm not sure. I've also played enough that I have a good sense of what works.

In a lot of ways, IWD2 party building is similar to IWD/HoW. In general, you need a healer, a wizard, and enough melee ability to suit your playing style. I tend to build parties as small tactical units instead of as powerful individual characters.

There's all kinds of possible alterations you could make to the sample party. It has 3 non-casters, and it could be quite easily be "upgraded" to have 5 or even 6 casters - however, it would require a significant melee drop-off, which I wouldn't necessarily recommend for a first run. (If you're interested, alterations could be done like this: #1 becomes a dwarven Ftr/Battleguard; #2 becomes a drow monk3/cleric of Ilmater; #3 becomes a rogue/wizard; #4 becomes a druid with minor barbarian levels - it's also common to give a sorceror 1-2 paladin levels)

Breaking down the sample party into its tactical components:

#1 is an offensive melee force. Its general role is to systematically hammer down melee attackers that are attacking #2.

#2 is a designated decoy/meatshield, against both spells and physical attacks, allowing your offensive casters to blast away and allowing #1 to maximize its offensive potential without worrying too much about its relatively poor defences - IWD2 is harder on melee characters than IWD/HoW. There are more extreme character builds for a high AC character, but a DG monk with minimal Int and Cha has good offensive melee ability and more than adequate defensive ability for this role. You can play without a defensive specialist, but I find using one to be more forgiving of mistakes.

#3 is all about versatility; it covers the scout/rogue roles and is better than adequate in melee and at range. It's not terribly powerful of itself, but it fills a lot of holes.

#4 is your healer and clerical buffer. For a melee heavy party, make it a dwarven Battleguard of Tempus - but sometimes it's necessary to keep your healer in a reserve role instead of active melee.

#5 is walking artillery. You don't precisely need one, but its power is nice and it has more combat flexibility than a wizard, despite a more restricted spell knowledge.

#6 is your identifier and your arcane insurance - a good complement to a sorceror.

[ 05-16-2007, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[Dancing Virginia]

At what point do you multiclass or dual class if you take the second option? Does it work the same way as in IWD/HOW?

[Aerich]

Erm... which second option? The caster-heavy party variation? Or are you referring to a particular character?

In IWD2, it's all multiclassing. And throw out everything you learned about multiclassing from IWD/HoW.

In IWD2, you choose what class you will add at every level-up. It's very flexible that way. For example, you can have a lvl 5 character with all levels in one class, or a lvl 5 character with a class breakdown of 2/1/1/1. There's no xp splitting as in IWD1 multiclassing. All your earned xp goes to the next level, whatever class that may be.

This is nice, but don't get carried away. Particularly with casting classes, it's generally better to have the majority of levels in one class. A lvl 12 cleric generally has more powerful spells than a Cleric6/Wizard6, and they will have the same amount of experience. Also, be aware that a 6-character party will get around 16 levels each by the end of the game. You will see a lot of builds that anticipate getting 30 levels (the level cap), but it's impossible to get there without doing HoF.

Two things you need to know about multiclassing:

1) Certain character classes (monk, paladin) cannot take more levels in that class if they've multiclassed to another class - they cannot "break their training". For example, if you wanted a sorceror with two paladin levels (a common character build), you have to take the paladin levels consecutively. Your level-ups can be Pal2-SorcX, Sorc28-Pal2, or anything in between, like Sorc6-Pal2-SorcX.

There is an exception to this rule. Every paladin and monk order has a single class to which this rule does not apply. So, for example, a Paladin of Ilmater (favoured class: cleric of Ilmater) could take one or more paladin levels, then one or more cleric levels only as a cleric of Ilmater, then more paladin levels. Therefore, you can see how important it is to plan your characters for more than just stats.

2) Multiclassing can cost you experience points if not planned properly. The general rule is that a character cannot have more than a single level difference between its classes, or it will be subjected to a 20% XP penalty per number of different classes. It's difficult to describe in words, so I'll use another example. A 7th lvl character with a level progression of Ftr2-Barb2-Ftr3-Barb4 will not take an experience penalty. A 7th lvl character with a level progression of Ftr2-Barb5 will have an xp penalty for the 4th and 5th barbarian levels. A 9th lvl character with a lvl progression of Ftr1-Barb3-Wiz5 will have a 40% penalty on earned xp toward its next level, because it has two classes that are more than one level different from a third class.

There is a race-based exception to the general multiclassing rule. Every race has a "favoured class". Levels taken in a race's favoured class do not exist for the purposes of calculating an experience penalty. So a half-orc (favoured class: barbarian) Ftr4/BarbX is a lvl 4 fighter for the purposes of calculating an xp penalty - meaning the character does not have a penalty. Compare it to an aasimar Ftr4/BarbX, which would suffer an xp penalty if the fighter and barbarian levels were not within one level of each other at all times.

Humans and half-elves are supposed to be the most flexible of races, so their favoured class is the highest level class they have. So you can create human or half-elf multiclassed characters without an xp penalty where any other character would be assessed a penalty. Drow have two possible favoured classes, depending on the gender of the character (male: wizard; female: cleric). Both are spellcasting classes, which, combined with a drow's other advantages, make them a very popular race.

What does this all mean? In short, if you are multiclassing, try to make sure that your character's race's favoured class corresponds to its major class (if you intend not to split levels almost evenly). There's really two ways to multiclass - one is to split levels almost equally, often used for a ranger/rogue type of character. Another is to have the majority of levels in one class (often a casting class) and "mix-in" one or more other classes for class-based benefits - such as a fighter's weapon specialization, a rogue's skills and evasion, or a paladin's saving throw bonuses.

[ 05-16-2007, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[Dancing Virginia]

Wow. You are my hero, Aerich. Thanks so much. It would take me months to figure all of this out on my own. The instruction manual is abstruse to say the least.

[Aerich]

You're welcome. I'm glad you understood my explanations. The manual is indeed terrible.

[Klorox]

Aerich comes through with some great advice again!

Hey Dancing Virginia, let us know what your party looks like, m'kay? [img]smile.gif[/img]