anti-religious extremist gone too far??

[K T Ong]

I just came to this thread to take a look. Almost immediately I could smell the heavy scent of sulphur and brimstone...

Agree with Cerek -- I wouldn't like to see IW become a place where discussions on religion are forbidden. That would make me quite sad, too. Another message board I know has already implemented such a ruling.

So come on, everyone, please -- let's exercise a little more mutual tolerance and respect.

As for the main topic of this thread, what I've learnt is that up to 95% of Americans already believe in God. Read more about it here. I seriously doubt just dropping two words from the Pledge of Allegiance will change that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[WOLFGIR]

Well I would say a couple of things, but I don´t know how you will see them, I hope you at least peek!

A pledge is a pledge as long as you mean it. It is up to you to actually come tru to it.

For USA I think it is a bit weird that they actually have the word God in it, and I can understand why some think it is a bit weird.

About silence in classes. Well have you considered the fact that Muslis have to pray a certain number (five or something?) every day regardless of what happens around them? In Afghanistan they should the resistance force Noth alliance that all went down and prayed while grenades came down around them. They have a God as well and they want to worship him.

About gettting people angry during a discussion shows how people work with adrenaline in their body, and can be pretty far from the truth. If you want heated discussions and adrenaline, there are far better places to be silver cat But that is just how I feel about it.

[flibulzbuth]

Having (finally) read this thread from one end to another, i haven't found the first statements quoted by Larry agressive or disrepectful. I think he misunderstood them, it was no attack on anybody or the american people. The stabbing began afterward. I've seen far much disrespectful and even racist posts on IW than those.

Well, that said, let's get back on the subject...

My 2¢ (might get nuked for this [img]smile.gif[/img] ):

I didn't saw this opinion coming out so far, so i'll try it.

Why should anyone be taught to pledge allegiance to it's country anyway? I would never, ever sing the canadian national anthem except for a good laught at it (and no, i'm not a separatist).
IM personal O, patriotism is an obstacle to clear-headed, rational thinking. As much as religion can sometime be to science.

I consider myself quite lucky: i've growned up watching the federalist vs. separatist political and (moslty) sentimental arguments, whilst i was being educated in a french school populated by frenchies who were quite away from that debate (including the teachers, who gave me a lucid class on canadian History i would never have got in the normal school system). When i was 17, there has been a referendum to create an independant state of Quebec. Man, i was really disgusted to see how much people where using their feelings instead of their heads to decide over such an important matter. I felt it before, but that's when i really realized that patriotism is a Bad Thing(TM).

That's why i would never send my kids to a school which molds the mind of very influencable kids to "feel" they should love their country. They could discuss about their country, no problemo as long as they do it with a devil's advocate. There are many good things to every country (government and people), but there are also many flaws that should never be overlooked or ignored.

For me, pledging alegiance to my country, on a daily basis, would be like puting blinders to focus my mind. If my government would have every kid say whatever pledge in the morning, i would strongly oppose.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: quote: Originally posted by Mouse: At the moment, we seem to be at a crossroads. There has been serious thought given to making religion a taboo subject here because of the ill feeling that seems to go hand-in-hand with the subject. I'm afraid the restraint and good humour that used to characterise most of the threads on GD seems to disappear when religion gets debated. Since the closing of the "War" forum, religion has caused more trouble for the Mods than any other subject. One way or another, this must stop.

I would personally HATE to see that happen. I enjoy the "Religion" threads more than any other topic discussed on this board. I've learned a great deal about other belief systems from these discussions and - with only a few notable exceptions - the vast majority of posts have been very civil on both sides.

The whole purpose of these debates is not to "win or lose", but simply to exchange viewpoints while showing respect and consideration towards everyone involved.

The other night, I visited a "chat room" for the very first time. I sought out one that focused on religious debate so that I could join in. I quickly learned that even the most serious "flame-baiter" on this forum is very cordial compared to those involved in "chat rooms".

I watched the commentary for a few minutes, with lots of name-calling and insults being hurled back and forth. I then entered my own comment at how shocked I was by the pervasive lack of respect.

The first response I got was "I respect your WORTHLESS opinion."

I almost left the "room" right then and there, instead I simply replied "And I respect yours."

By not rising to the flame-bait, I was able to hold an interesting discussion with the person.

So I would like to ask everyone here to do two simple things.

1) DO NOT FLAME-BAIT!
2) Do not take the "bait" when it occurs.

Who knows? We might ALL learn something we didn't know, or at least look at things a little differently when we leave.[/QUOTE]Brilliant idea, why didn't anyone else think of that? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Simple in theory, and something most people do face-to-face. Over the internet, behind a faceless computer, untouchable, it's a lot easier to be a smartass, isn't it.

I won't add any more thoughts since others have already said what I would have said, but could I just add one thing when it comes to serious debates: we have no problem with people expressing their opinion passionately, as long as they don't attack other members personally. Passion is good - personal attacks are bad. Please use your collective judgments on which is which.

Final thing and just to clarify: an Ironworks moderator is an Ironworks moderator, no matter what forum he or she is on. Please respect their wishes, and if you feel you want to further discuss an action that someone in the moderator team has made or requested, please do so via PM or email. This is a) tactful; b) courteous and c) will probably avoid further trouble and misunderstanding.

Thank you. [img]smile.gif[/img]