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View Poll Results: Is Teaching Enviromentalism "indoctrination"?
Yes 8 38.10%
No 10 47.62%
Other- Please Explain 3 14.29%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-08-2009, 09:16 AM   #11
ElfBane
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Falling on Floor Laughing Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin View Post
Riddle me this: Where does your plastic 3, 4, and 7 go?
Here in Titusville they take all plastic. I am aware that there are types of plastic that are hard/expensive to recycle OR impossible to recycle. Those, I assume, go into the landfill. But that is a future political battle.
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Old 02-08-2009, 10:20 AM   #12
Felix The Assassin
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

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Originally Posted by ElfBane View Post
I live in Florida and am aware that Florida's latitude puts us in the Northern desert band that surrounds the Earth. I think that being a peninsula jutting into warm waters may delay the desertification of FL. You may have noticed that other areas of the Earth in the NDB that are in areas with lots of water have avoided this fate also. I am awaiting a much more dire fate however,,,, There will eventually be so many people that the aquifer will be gone....then start the "water wars".
Yes, water wars, like last year GA. AL etc.. My point exactly.
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:08 AM   #13
Cerek
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

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Originally Posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar View Post
No, it isn't.

Even if it is... so?

There's aaaall sorts of indoctrination going on in our schools these days. At least let something positive be taught.
So indoctrination is acceptable as long as it's something you agree with? Interesting.
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

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Originally Posted by Cerek View Post
So indoctrination is acceptable as long as it's something you agree with? Interesting.
That's the current trend nowadays anyways.
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:55 PM   #15
SecretMaster
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

I don't know, I can see the argument going both ways. As an environmental biology major at the college of environmental science and forestry, I'm a firm believer that we should be taking better care of the planet. Do I believe that humans are just another species, one of millions, living on this planet and we shouldn't be destroying it the way we are? Absolutely. However at the same time, that is also my personal viewpoint and opinion. I can see how people can perceive that as forcing a certain viewpoint. Some people believe that man was destined to inherit the earth, that we were meant to conquer.

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The problem I see dealing with college students is that they are taught these topics without any perspective. Students think that the extinction of a species or even a sub-species is a huge catastrophe that warrants any amount of money and effort to stop. They aren't taught that the number of extant species is tiny compared to the number of extinct ones, or that extinctions are a natural part of evolution. I do think that if humans are responsible for destroying habitats, that limiting development on the remaining habitat is appropriate, but there should be limits.
Species extinction is a common thing, yes. And there have been uncounted number of extinct species. But what you are ignoring is the fact that while extinction is a natural thing, the rate at which species have been going extinct is far greater than what has been seen throughout history. Humans are decimating species and populations at tremendous rates.

As for the "climate change is natural" arguement. Well... I'm not quite exactly sure how to respond to that. It is indeed natural, but our current predicament I am not so sure about. I believe humas have an impact. The larger body of science and academia has already seemed to have accepted this idea as well (but yes, the larger body of scientists have been wrong in the past). Ignoring the sensationalist articles that the mass media seem to publish consantly "omgz we are all dead and doomed", there are already many scientific papers being published on the matter. Science, one of the most prestigious scientific journals, just published a paper on the effect of global warming on tree mortality. My school has done a number of research projects on these effects as well.

I can't understand why people are skeptical about it. Firstly people deny that climate change doesnt exist, which is just stupid. Whether it is natural or anthropogenic, it exists. As for the people who believe it is natural well...again there may not be a single smoking gun but the evidence leans heavily towards humans are having a big impact. I think part of the reason is that because people say "hey, the winters are still freezing and getting even worse from year to year". Their perception is that they see nothing abnormal. To which I respond with, the label of "global warming" (changed to 'global climate change') is highly misleading. A better title would be global climate disruption.

Lastly, even if this warming is indeed natural, what is so wrong with making a "cleaner" planet? Tell me what is so profound and controversial about developing energy efficiencies and trying to clean up pollution? There is not a damn thing that is bad about taking an environmental stance.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:11 PM   #16
ElfBane
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Falling on Floor Laughing Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

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Originally Posted by SecretMaster View Post

I can't understand why people are skeptical about it. Firstly people deny that climate change doesnt exist, which is just stupid. Whether it is natural or anthropogenic, it exists. As for the people who believe it is natural well...again there may not be a single smoking gun but the evidence leans heavily towards humans are having a big impact. I think part of the reason is that because people say "hey, the winters are still freezing and getting even worse from year to year". Their perception is that they see nothing abnormal. To which I respond with, the label of "global warming" (changed to 'global climate change') is highly misleading. A better title would be global climate disruption.
I am under the impression that, under some predictive models, more severe winters are a symptom of overall global warming. Has anyone else heard that?
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Last edited by ElfBane; 02-08-2009 at 03:12 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-08-2009, 05:26 PM   #17
Cerek
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

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Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior View Post
That's the current trend nowadays anyways.
Then indoctrination of something you don't agree with should be acceptable as well, since it will obviously be acceptable to someone else.
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Old 02-09-2009, 02:57 AM   #18
Illumina Drathiran'ar
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

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Originally Posted by Cerek View Post
So indoctrination is acceptable as long as it's something you agree with? Interesting.
Nope. For example, if they decided to indoctrinate people with my religious or political beliefs, I'd be at the front of the protest line.

But certain things you need to drill into people... Not because I think they're a good idea, but because they ARE a good idea. Take care of the planet. Brush your teeth. Treat people kindly.

I think there's a difference.
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Old 02-09-2009, 08:24 AM   #19
Felix The Assassin
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar View Post
But certain things you need to drill into people... Not because I think they're a good idea, but because they ARE a good idea. Take care of the planet. Brush your teeth. Treat people kindly.
1. For sure.
2. Yes, please!
3. My philosophy is to treat others as they need treated.
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Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

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Old 02-09-2009, 11:31 AM   #20
Chewbacca
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Default Re: Teaching enviromentalism "indoctrination"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin View Post
Riddle me this: Where does your plastic 3, 4, and 7 go?
They take all plastic away. Where it goes after I don't know, but I assume to a sorting facility.

It's about to be a moot point though, because we are soon moving to the next town over. I just found out our new town doesn't even have trash collection, nevermind recycling.
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