Another NERRRRRRRRD poll - Page 8

PurpleXVI · 01-13-2007, 07:03 AM

I assumed that anyone who used 3rd edition would have upgraded to 3.5. I mean, is there really any reason not to? As far as I know, it's an improvement in every way.

PurpleXVI · 01-14-2007, 07:22 AM

So let's see... Looks like we're generally a bunch of 3rd-edition players who like fantasy settings and D20's, plus we're going to lose our internet girlfriends.

Pretty much what I was expecting.

Encard · 01-16-2007, 03:34 PM

Purple, all supplements to 3ed/3.5 (i.e. anything beyond the PHB, DMG and MM) are just as optional as any 2ed books... and honestly, I don't think 3.x makes it any harder to roleplay than 2ed did. The issue, I believe, is that 3.x is more coherently spelled-out - using the same systems throughout - than 2ed was, which makes it easier to see how to build a powerful character. 2ed, in the meantime, had a lot of stuff that would be deemed crazy-nutso-overpowered if printed in just about any 3.x supplement... but because the ruleset was less cohesive, it wasn't necessarily as obvious how powerful a given character was.

I'd say that overall, the power bar is a bit higher for 3.x than for 2ed (although given that 2ed had no magic item guidelines, it could vary quite a bit), but at the same time monsters have access to the same abilities as the players.

Favorite system-wise, I'd opt for either NWOD or - if my memory isn't off - possibly one of the later editions of Ars Magica. Setting-wise, probably Eberron or Kult. 3.5 is definitely up there, though - being in prominent use and having so many tasty character mechanics options is great fun if you like tweaking character builds and such... which I do.

[ 01-16-2007, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Encard ]

Thoran · 01-16-2007, 09:00 PM

Ars Magika is my favorite gaming these days, Shadowrun is also fun but too "hack and slash" for my taste (partly Game Guide's taste... partly the combat heavy game mechanics).

Ars is pretty intense, fantasy but set in the Historical Middle Ages (lots of background for use there).

PurpleXVI · 01-16-2007, 09:36 PM

One thing I really can't stand about 3rd ed is how easily players can craft magical items, according to the rules.

What I think might make it harder to roleplay in 3.x is the fact that you have rolls for the various "social" interactions, I remain convinced that it's likely to make more players rely on a roll to decide whether something works, and to let more DM's let them get away with that. Not saying it'll happen for everyone, mind you.

Never played NWoD, so can't comment on the system, but I can't say I care much for what I hear about the setting changes.

Kult is, hands down, the most AWESOME setting ever, the only competition is the original Dark Sun(Not any of the crappy expansions/later editions where there are suddenly good city states and Avangion equals to the Dragons, bleh.). The only problem with Kult is that the rulebook could use a bit of cleaning up, the rules tend to be scattered all over the place. You can't just use one or two chapters to create your character, you have to read practically all of them, because almost all of them have something that's necessary for character creation.

Encard · 01-18-2007, 05:48 PM

You know, I was just telling my girlfriend (who's also in my D&D group) about the 2ed way of creating magic items and how much more interesting it was. The thing is, crafting a magic item with the full 2ed "go questing for every last thing you need" was likely to be a campaign in an of itself - as cool as that can be, it's a pain if you and your players would rather play a campaign that furthers some sort of grand plot, particularly for those who play infrequently. Of course, doing that means no item crafting... which is a pain as well.

Personally, I think the ideal would be somewhere in between 2ed's and 3ed's system - I have a feeling that, if my players ever get around to taking item creation feats, I'll see about at least working out a description of how they made the items in question. Keep in mind - in a lot of cases, 3ed is (in my experience, at least) a higher-magic game than 2ed, so it sort of makes sense that you can craft items more easily.

The setting changes in NWoD are actually pretty cool - take a look yourself before you let people decide for you, I'd suggest. At least based on the material in the core books for each game, they toned down a lot of the "earth-shattering conspiracy within grand conspiracy within really unpleasant conspiracy" business and turned it into more of a horror-themed game. Various supernatural creatures still have tons of influence, but I feel like the games are now focused more on your characters than on the thousand and one wacky evil vampire politics games they can stumble upon. That is, unless my memory is really badly off. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 01-18-2007, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Encard ]

PurpleXVI · 01-18-2007, 10:17 PM

Well, then it sucks for the players if they'd have to take a time out from the plot to craft their +20 sword of Doomslaying. If they don't want to do that, they could pay a Diviner to scry for one and then go questing for it instead. I'm happy with it being a dick of a method, leaves the players doing it very, very, very infrequently, which is the way it should be. If you're going to let your players craft magic items with any sort of frequency, you may as well leave a +1 item in every pile of loot they find.

And yes, if you can't tell, I favour low magic. Mages rare, magic items rarer still, there's no point to having magic in the game if it isn't at least a bit unusual.

NWoD: Yeah, but didn't they completely remove all the bloodlines?

Luvian · 01-19-2007, 01:25 PM

Yeah well... Enchanting cost xp. I don't know many players that are willing to give up xp. I don't think anyone would do it repeatedly.

About NWOD. It does seem like they messed up with my favourite bloodlines. That's what get to me the most. I haven't actually read up on the new system, but my first impression is that I liked the old system very much and I don't see why they should change something that was working out pretty well.

Timber Loftis · 01-19-2007, 01:48 PM

Regarding the 3.5 ed. item crafting, it's one of the many monty haul reasons I no longer like, enjoy, or play D&D. If I ever do run it again, I'll run 2nd ed.... back before they killed the system.

PurpleXVI · 01-19-2007, 02:49 PM

Well, as said, it was a bit too easy to create titanic murder-machines in the old WoD rules. At least Vampire, but even in Mage you could create some sort of mad gunslinger if you completely neglected your magic...

But other than that, yes, it was a reasonably effective system, even if it could've used a teensy bit of streamlining.

2nd ed is superior to 3rd ed if you add in Player's Option, I'd say, otherwise 3rd ed has a few advantages that make the two things about equal.

View Poll Results: Your favourite gaming system(Roleplaying, not console/PC, etc.)
2nd edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons	7	15.56%
3rd edition Dungeons and Dragons	6	13.33%
1st edition Dungeons and Dragons	16	35.56%
GURPS	2	4.44%
RIFTS	3	6.67%
Unisystem(All Flesh Must Be Eaten, etc.)	7	15.56%
Alternity	1	2.22%
Freeform(Or some sort of diceless)	2	4.44%
Other(Please enlighten us as to your inferior choice)	1	2.22%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

01-19-2007, 01:25 PM	#78
Luvian Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 27, 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Age: 43 Posts: 6,763	Yeah well... Enchanting cost xp. I don't know many players that are willing to give up xp. I don't think anyone would do it repeatedly. About NWOD. It does seem like they messed up with my favourite bloodlines. That's what get to me the most. I haven't actually read up on the new system, but my first impression is that I liked the old system very much and I don't see why they should change something that was working out pretty well. __________________ Once upon a time in Canada...

01-19-2007, 01:48 PM	#79
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	Regarding the 3.5 ed. item crafting, it's one of the many monty haul reasons I no longer like, enjoy, or play D&D. If I ever do run it again, I'll run 2nd ed.... back before they killed the system. __________________

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01-13-2007, 07:03 AM	#71
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	I assumed that anyone who used 3rd edition would have upgraded to 3.5. I mean, is there really any reason not to? As far as I know, it's an improvement in every way.

01-14-2007, 07:22 AM	#72
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	So let's see... Looks like we're generally a bunch of 3rd-edition players who like fantasy settings and D20's, plus we're going to lose our internet girlfriends. Pretty much what I was expecting.

01-16-2007, 03:34 PM	#73
Encard Quintesson Join Date: June 13, 2001 Location: Darkness Age: 37 Posts: 1,033	Purple, all supplements to 3ed/3.5 (i.e. anything beyond the PHB, DMG and MM) are just as optional as any 2ed books... and honestly, I don't think 3.x makes it any harder to roleplay than 2ed did. The issue, I believe, is that 3.x is more coherently spelled-out - using the same systems throughout - than 2ed was, which makes it easier to see how to build a powerful character. 2ed, in the meantime, had a lot of stuff that would be deemed crazy-nutso-overpowered if printed in just about any 3.x supplement... but because the ruleset was less cohesive, it wasn't necessarily as obvious how powerful a given character was. I'd say that overall, the power bar is a bit higher for 3.x than for 2ed (although given that 2ed had no magic item guidelines, it could vary quite a bit), but at the same time monsters have access to the same abilities as the players. Favorite system-wise, I'd opt for either NWOD or - if my memory isn't off - possibly one of the later editions of Ars Magica. Setting-wise, probably Eberron or Kult. 3.5 is definitely up there, though - being in prominent use and having so many tasty character mechanics options is great fun if you like tweaking character builds and such... which I do. [ 01-16-2007, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Encard ]

01-16-2007, 09:00 PM	#74
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	Ars Magika is my favorite gaming these days, Shadowrun is also fun but too "hack and slash" for my taste (partly Game Guide's taste... partly the combat heavy game mechanics). Ars is pretty intense, fantasy but set in the Historical Middle Ages (lots of background for use there).

01-16-2007, 09:36 PM	#75
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	One thing I really can't stand about 3rd ed is how easily players can craft magical items, according to the rules. What I think might make it harder to roleplay in 3.x is the fact that you have rolls for the various "social" interactions, I remain convinced that it's likely to make more players rely on a roll to decide whether something works, and to let more DM's let them get away with that. Not saying it'll happen for everyone, mind you. Never played NWoD, so can't comment on the system, but I can't say I care much for what I hear about the setting changes. Kult is, hands down, the most AWESOME setting ever, the only competition is the original Dark Sun(Not any of the crappy expansions/later editions where there are suddenly good city states and Avangion equals to the Dragons, bleh.). The only problem with Kult is that the rulebook could use a bit of cleaning up, the rules tend to be scattered all over the place. You can't just use one or two chapters to create your character, you have to read practically all of them, because almost all of them have something that's necessary for character creation.

01-18-2007, 05:48 PM	#76
Encard Quintesson Join Date: June 13, 2001 Location: Darkness Age: 37 Posts: 1,033	You know, I was just telling my girlfriend (who's also in my D&D group) about the 2ed way of creating magic items and how much more interesting it was. The thing is, crafting a magic item with the full 2ed "go questing for every last thing you need" was likely to be a campaign in an of itself - as cool as that can be, it's a pain if you and your players would rather play a campaign that furthers some sort of grand plot, particularly for those who play infrequently. Of course, doing that means no item crafting... which is a pain as well. Personally, I think the ideal would be somewhere in between 2ed's and 3ed's system - I have a feeling that, if my players ever get around to taking item creation feats, I'll see about at least working out a description of how they made the items in question. Keep in mind - in a lot of cases, 3ed is (in my experience, at least) a higher-magic game than 2ed, so it sort of makes sense that you can craft items more easily. The setting changes in NWoD are actually pretty cool - take a look yourself before you let people decide for you, I'd suggest. At least based on the material in the core books for each game, they toned down a lot of the "earth-shattering conspiracy within grand conspiracy within really unpleasant conspiracy" business and turned it into more of a horror-themed game. Various supernatural creatures still have tons of influence, but I feel like the games are now focused more on your characters than on the thousand and one wacky evil vampire politics games they can stumble upon. That is, unless my memory is really badly off. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [ 01-18-2007, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Encard ]

01-18-2007, 10:17 PM	#77
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	Well, then it sucks for the players if they'd have to take a time out from the plot to craft their +20 sword of Doomslaying. If they don't want to do that, they could pay a Diviner to scry for one and then go questing for it instead. I'm happy with it being a dick of a method, leaves the players doing it very, very, very infrequently, which is the way it should be. If you're going to let your players craft magic items with any sort of frequency, you may as well leave a +1 item in every pile of loot they find. And yes, if you can't tell, I favour low magic. Mages rare, magic items rarer still, there's no point to having magic in the game if it isn't at least a bit unusual. NWoD: Yeah, but didn't they completely remove all the bloodlines?

01-19-2007, 02:49 PM	#80
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	Well, as said, it was a bit too easy to create titanic murder-machines in the old WoD rules. At least Vampire, but even in Mage you could create some sort of mad gunslinger if you completely neglected your magic... But other than that, yes, it was a reasonably effective system, even if it could've used a teensy bit of streamlining. 2nd ed is superior to 3rd ed if you add in Player's Option, I'd say, otherwise 3rd ed has a few advantages that make the two things about equal.

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