The Math Don't Add Up (part 2)

[Mozenwrathe]

Okay, saw this strength-based ranger build on the Bioware forums, and was thinking of creating an archer with him. Why? To get that fabulous bow inside of the Drow Proving Grounds, of course. My problem is that I am not sure if I should keep it strength based and change over various feats to optimize the longbow, or if I should attempt to do a complete conversion to dexterity. I mean, in order to hit a few dozen creatures on Levels Thirteen and beyond, I would need a +60 AB in order to strike consistently....


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The Cleaver by Mithdradates
Playable from level 1 - 40 ..PvM Build

The second character is the "Cleaver". He'll cut through when the "Vegomatic" fails. He also has UMD.

Level 1 Human (Subrace Aasimar), GG Ranger
Base Attributes
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 12
WIS 14
INT 14
CHA 8
Feats: weapon focus (greatsword), power attack, favoured enemy (elf)

Level 3 Ranger 3
Feat: cleave

Level 4 Ranger 4
STR +1

Level 5 Ranger 5
Feat: favoured enemy (dwarf)

Level 6 Ranger 6
Feat: great cleave

Level 8 Ranger 8
STR +1

Level 9 Ranger 9
Feat: improved power attack

Level 10 Ranger 10
Feat: favoured enemy (human)

Level 12 Ranger 12
STR +1
Feat: improved critical (greatsword)

Level 15 Ranger 15
Feats: knockdown, favoured enemy (half-orc)

Level 16 Ranger 16
STR +1

Level 18 Ranger 18
Feat: improved knockdown

Level 20 Ranger 20
STR +1
Feat: favoured enemy (halfling)

Level 21 Ranger 21
Feat: epic weapon focus (greatsword)

Level 23 Ranger 23
Feat: bane of enemies

Level 24 Ranger 24
STR +1
Feat: great strength I

Level 25 Ranger 25
Feat: favoured enemy (half-elf)

Level 26 Ranger 26
Feat: favoured enemy (gnome)

Level 27 Ranger 27
Feat: great strength II

Level 28 Ranger 28
STR +1

Level 29 Ranger 29
Feat: favoured enemy (elementals)

Level 30 Ranger 30
Feat: great strength III, favoured enemy (undead)

Level 31 Ranger 30/Fighter 1
Feat: overwhelming critical (greatsword)

Level 32 Ranger 30/Fighter 2
STR +1
Feat: devastating critical (greatsword)

Level 33 Ranger 30/Fighter 3
Feat: great strength IV

Level 34 Ranger 30/Fighter 4
Feat: weapon specialization (greatsword)

Level 36 Ranger 30/Fighter 6
STR +1
Feats: epic weapon specialization (greatsword), epic prowess

Level 39 Ranger 31/Fighter 6/Rogue 2
Feat: armor skin

Level 40 Ranger 32/Fighter 6/Rogue 2
STR +1
Feat: favoured enemy (outsider)

Final Attributes
STR 30
DEX 12
CON 12
WIS 14
INT 14
CHA 8

Final Saves
Fortitude 23
Reflexes 17
Will 18

HP (max every level) 432

AB and damage (no buffs, normal greatsword)
44/39/34/29 21+2D6 (17-20 X2)
(46/41/36/31 28+4D6 (17-20 X2) vs. favoured enemy)

Devastating Critical DC 40

AB and damage (with +12 to STR, and +10 keen greatsword)
60/55/50/45 40+2D6 (15-20 X2)
(62/57/52/47 47+4D6 (15-20 X2) vs. favoured enemy)

Devastating Critical DC 46

AC (with no items) 21

297 skill points, suggested use
Concentration 43
Discipline 43
Hide 42
Move Silently 42
Set Trap 5
Spellcraft 20
Tumble 40
Use Magic Device 42


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Now, my question is will this work out as a straight conversion? Going the route of the Arcane Archer easily will gain a higher AB, but you can't acquire the bow from the Drow Proving Grounds with any bard, sorcerer, or wisdom in your system. I would also have to assume I'd need to stick with a human (or a half-elf) in order for this build to have the same merits as it has on paper right now.

[Unglaublich Verwustung]

I am unlikely to get a look at this until tomorrow or Wednesday but will feedback at that point, hang in there...

[Unglaublich Verwustung]

Originally Posted by Mozenwrathe Now, my question is will this work out as a straight conversion? Going the route of the Arcane Archer easily will gain a higher AB, but you can't acquire the bow from the Drow Proving Grounds with any bard, sorcerer, or wisdom in your system. I would also have to assume I'd need to stick with a human (or a half-elf) in order for this build to have the same merits as it has on paper right now.

Didn't bother with a conversion yet as that requires all sorts of thinking but you can build a dex based Ranger 27, Rogue 8, fighter 5 with AB +44 plus bane giving you a + 2 against FE so AB 46+. That is based on mundane bow. Okay, so you may have limitations on the gear you can throw on to boost up, but the usual dex boosts will help with that AB and a few for strength will help with the low damage output due to bow usage. Add in Jaraos' bow (if Halaster doesn't get miffed with you for borrowing it) and you should be able to add appx. 17+ to your AB - by my reckoning you get a nice AB of +63, not a world beater but keeps you up there in the running. AC with the right gear should be up around 85+.

I haven't got full spec but can throw it together for you if you want. To prove a point when testing the feasibility I had to use a shortbow because I built it with a halfling ( I try to break stereotypes).

Just imagine: a crazy midget running through the undergrowth popping arrows at you. With the rogue you also get high tumble, high UMD etc, etc - decent AC, all the fun of the fair and the chance to throw some spells on yourself when it all gets a little too hairy, and then shift on out of there at speed.

The biggest annoyance here is that, to get the high AB you need to do well in EFU you really need AA (for archers), the ranger just can't cut it. I have considered this build from various angles now and I can't drag that AB much higher. Annoying but seemingly true. I have also compared the build I have suggested here to those in the Epic builders guild and s/he tops most of them and equals the best. I will keep manipulating to see what I can get, but not got high hopes on it for you.

[Unglaublich Verwustung]

And for a throwaway ranger/assassin with AB +45, death attack 16 , UMD, tumble you can create the Bad-ass Halfling: ranger 10, assassin 30


Anyone else got any other ideas for him? I'm running out of options here...

[robertthebard]

Here's a novel solution:

Ranger 9
Wizard 1
AA

ETA:

OK, simply put, most of the builds you find on the forums have never really been tested. They are built to demonstrate/highlight a specific skill or skill set. It is so much better to work your own stuff out, and go according to need. For Undermountain, knowing what gear you are after, it's easier to build for the gear. If you are going bow, then you want a very high dex based ranger. Strength based won't do you any good. I'll let my characters speak for me on that, as I'm sure you can remember how effective they are, or aren't, depending on what I was trying to do. In shorter, look at what they do on these "uber" builds, decide what will work, and what won't, based on what gear you're going after, and build from there.

[Mozenwrathe]

But I thought that Mighty +## bonus only worked for Strength-based characters. That is why I went with the Strength-based version of the ranger you see there. I will have to take a secondary look at the bow (one of my characters has two of them). Not too mention I could then wear heavy armor without suffering any penalties to my bonuses from any magical or normal items. What I was also considering was what items to get for a Strength-based based using a two-handed weapon to get their armor class higher than 57. My current project - a heavy flail user - has a maximum AC 57 right now, and I cannot figure out what I can do in order to increase their protection...

[toot033]

Don't forget to take true strike as one of your spells on 1 wiz level. The +20 that it gives can push any of these builds way over 80. Granted its only for 9 seconds.. Sigh if it could only be extended ( one of the few spells that can't)

[Greything]

An AC of 57 with heavy armour and two handed weapon.

Try these.

1 Dwarven Armour of Enhanced Protection,

2 Skull Plate Helm,

3 Boots of Quickness

4 Malaki's Amulet.

The cloak from the DPG may add one or two more AC points.

[Mozenwrathe]

Thanks. I have snagged already the Dwarven Armour Of Enhanced Protection and the Skull Plate Helm. I now need to get the rest of that ensemble and I should be set. As for the Ranger up top there, I have not started working on the conversion to archer yet, but I think I'll start it either today or tomorrow. Was aiming to use longbow and human for it, so I'll be sticking with the strength-based concept to see if I can make this work in my favour. I may go with the exact same combination of equipment for that one as with strength-based archers my range won't decrease with heavy armour. Though it would be nice to get away with a higher AC...

[roddybug]

Another little trick to boost your ac is to put on the Vestalki amulet, fire off an epic mage armour spell, take the amulet off, give it a little kiss before placing it in your backpack and then don the Malaki amulet.