Question on Christianity.

[Gabriel]

Okay on resent ponderings I come up with something I can't answer, WHY is Satan considered evil? Now please stay with me here, I know that he was cased out of heaven due to a fight/agurement with God about how to raise Humanity or some such but once exiled he was sent to hell, a domain to call his own were he punishes those that break the scare law of God. Now surely by puinshing these people he is doing God's work, as these are people God will not forgive and therefore he is still acting servent of God?
So even while he is doing the will of God is he considered Evil and thought to turn Humans to a path of evil which gains him nothing but more work?

[andrewas]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabriel:
Okay on resent ponderings I come up with something I can't answer, WHY is Satan considered evil? Now please stay with me here, I know that he was cased out of heaven due to a fight/agurement with God about how to raise Humanity or some such but once exiled he was sent to hell, a domain to call his own were he punishes those that break the scare law of God. Now surely by puinshing these people he is doing God's work, as these are people God will not forgive and therefore he is still acting servent of God?
So even while he is doing the will of God is he considered Evil and thought to turn Humans to a path of evil which gains him nothing but more work?

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who says he punishes people in hell? i know the christians do, but they just want to try and make people be nice to each other (while causing some of the largest pre-20th century wars ever). seems more likley he'd reward people for following his will.

or maybe he converts people to the ways of evil in order to give himself more people to play with? i just dunno, religion dont make a whole lot of sense at the best of times.

[Glorfindel]

Well...... I thought that there was no such thing as hell anymore..... I thought the whole judgment now was.... you go to heaven, or you dont... Im no perfect christian but I thought I heard that somewhere...

And also.... I hope im not offending ne1 by saying this but.... possibly the whole idea of going to hell was to make people do the right thing?????

[Larry_OHF]

Satan indeed rebelled against God's idea of happiness.
Now, he knows he is a goner, because in the Book of Revelations, it says that he is going to be bound for 1,000 years, be let loose for a little season, then a big ending battle will take place and the bad boy is outta here forever. Well, something like that, anyway.

Yet, he does not want God to have to upper hand. He feels that if he is going down, he is going to take as many of us with him as possible. By hurting us and tempting us to do wrong, Satan can smirk at God and say, "Well, at least I destroyed some of your children!" He cannot get them all, but think about if you had 10 children...and 1 got hit by a car and died. You're still going to cry, even though you have 9 healthy kids.

Now, you say..."Why does God allow Satan to screw up our lives???"

We have free agency. That is the ability to decide what is right and what is wrong for ourselves. If we choose to let Satan get a grasp...then he can quickly take over our future and ruin our lives...with eternal consequence.
If we choose the right way, then we continue to remain free and progress towards salvation and eternal life.

God does not want Satan to hurt us...but we have to be tried and tested. If we exceed, we become stronger. In Genesis, Eve says that it is better to pass through sorrow that we might know joy.[i](not the exact quote). If you leave your child alone in the kitchen with the cookie jar, and tell him..."Do not eat the cookies, until I return," and the kid was obedient to your word...so that when you returned he ad not touched the cookies, you would know that you had an obedient kid, and you could trust him. Thus God knows who he can "trust", by our way of deciding if we wanna follow Him, or Satan. Following Satan or allowing Satan to whisper sweet nothings into our ear proves to God that we are not worthy to be in His presence, and reluctanly, He must allow Satan his victory, because we were not forced to do it Satan's way...we elected to. If your kid decides to become a drug addict, and after all you do to help him understand the foolishness of his way, he still does it his way, and even laughs at you, curses you for being there, and runs away from you...what more can you do? The boy is a legal adult at 18.(US standard). So, you see, God cannot force us to do it the right way, without taking away our agency...which is our right to choose how we will live. God will not force us to do it His way, though He really wishes that we would listen to His still, small voice...(Reference to the Holy Ghost).

[Gabriel]

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry_OHF:


Satan indeed rebelled against God's idea of happiness.
Now, he knows he is a goner, because in the Book of Revelations, it says that he is going to be bound for 1,000 years, be let loose for a little season, then a big ending battle will take place and the bad boy is outta here forever. Well, something like that, anyway.

Yet, he does not want God to have to upper hand. He feels that if he is going down, he is going to take as many of us with him as possible. By hurting us and tempting us to do wrong, Satan can smirk at God and say, "Well, at least I destroyed some of your children!" He cannot get them all, but think about if you had 10 children...and 1 got hit by a car and died. You're still going to cry, even though you have 9 healthy kids.

Now, you say..."Why does God allow Satan to screw up our lives???"

We have free agency. That is the ability to decide what is right and what is wrong for ourselves. If we choose to let Satan get a grasp...then he can quickly take over our future and ruin our lives...with eternal consequence.
If we choose the right way, then we continue to remain free and progress towards salvation and eternal life.

God does not want Satan to hurt us...but we have to be tried and tested. If we exceed, we become stronger. In Genesis, Eve says that it is better to pass through sorrow that we might know joy.[i](not the exact quote). If you leave your child alone in the kitchen with the cookie jar, and tell him..."Do not eat the cookies, until I return," and the kid was obedient to your word...so that when you returned he ad not touched the cookies, you would know that you had an obedient kid, and you could trust him. Thus God knows who he can "trust", by our way of deciding if we wanna follow Him, or Satan. Following Satan or allowing Satan to whisper sweet nothings into our ear proves to God that we are not worthy to be in His presence, and reluctanly, He must allow Satan his victory, because we were not forced to do it Satan's way...we elected to. If your kid decides to become a drug addict, and after all you do to help him understand the foolishness of his way, he still does it his way, and even laughs at you, curses you for being there, and runs away from you...what more can you do? The boy is a legal adult at 18.(US standard). So, you see, God cannot force us to do it the right way, without taking away our agency...which is our right to choose how we will live. God will not force us to do it His way, though He really wishes that we would listen to His still, small voice...(Reference to the Holy Ghost).

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So Satan tries to draw you into darkness to punish God, by then why punish those that fall prey, or those that chose willing to go?
Once he punished God by taking his children they is no point in punshiong them, surely they would work better as agents or warriors to his cause. Instead of punshing those that God deemed to evil to enter Heaven and sentenced to hell were they will be punished in HIS name.
Now as you said, or qouted, we must be tested then why ,if we fail, be sent to hell when surely as God he could create a new place for us to dwell where we can learn from our mistakes in life and so prevent Satan's minor victory?

[AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe]

satan is considered bad because he is leading us astray from gods path or some such nonsense like that. And god doesnt like that so anything he doesnt like is considered bad . Iits thats whole apple eater philosophy we have the intelligence to make up our minds after adam ate the apple. Thus satan presents us with pretty strong temptations to lead us off God's path, and in doing so tries to tempt us not to follow god's will. therefore satan is bad. Thats how I understand it, believe me I am far from an expert, and on a personal note I don't believe in any of it, but you posed a question so I tried to formulate a reasonable response with the best of my knowledge. Satan doesn't like us so when he leads us astray he punishes us in hell. Its not the punishment thing that makes him evil, its the process and the act of taking us away from God that makes satan "evil". When Satan takes one of our "souls" that hurts God to lose one of his children, thus another reason Satan is viewed as bad. not a well formulated response, but I was going to end this earlier then another thought hit me so just piece the two together.

[Durwyn]

Well as a Russian-Christian-Orthodox, and Orthodox I would say is the deepest form of Christianity, I can try and answer your tomentious question. In any case, a question like why Satan is evil is fairly simple to answer. Satan is evil because he is considered the ruler of Hell, a place for sinners to pay for their sins, and those may be of any kind. A sin is anything that you would consider wrong. Perhaps an exact definiton of such is really not known, but a sin is simply a wrong thing, and there are many parts of 'SIN'. A light sin, a serious sin, and a major sin. A light would perhaps be like stealing a candy from kitchen when your parents said you cant have any. A serious sin would be stealing something more like a purse, or some small money, clothes, toys, small amounts of things as such. A major sin would be rape, kills, and believe it or not sex. At least in Russian-Orthodox its not allowed to practice safe sex. Of course around 99.9% of Russians do not follow that rule, but it is sin after all. Now to answer the question, Satan is responsible for all of those sins, he is the one that would perhaps make you do those sins under his own influence. Thus he is considered evil, because stealing money, or killing someone is evil. Things of evil nature would automatically be forwarded to Satan. For he is the keeper of sin and the evil one...

I dont know really how to exactly asnwer why Satan is evil, he just is, and most everyone knows that...I mean Satan = Evil, bottom line heh .

[John D Harris]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabriel:
Okay on resent ponderings I come up with something I can't answer, WHY is Satan considered evil? Now please stay with me here, I know that he was cased out of heaven due to a fight/agurement with God about how to raise Humanity or some such but once exiled he was sent to hell, a domain to call his own were he punishes those that break the scare law of God. Now surely by puinshing these people he is doing God's work, as these are people God will not forgive and therefore he is still acting servent of God?
So even while he is doing the will of God is he considered Evil and thought to turn Humans to a path of evil which gains him nothing but more work?

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Gabriel, I'm not sure what Satan's sin was that caused him to be cast out. There are a referance or two to Satan being "cast out" or "fallen" I have heard theological (sp?) arguements made as to why ie: Satan was full of pride and refused to submit, Satan argued with God, Satan was jeleous (sp?) of Jesus being choosen to be the son of God. Personaly I'm not convinced by any of them, not that it matters to me. God saw that it was neccesary to do so.
I don't beleive that Satan does punish the unforgiven in Hell, I think they are punished with Satan. Exactly what the punishment is I don't know there are referances to the "Lake that burns with fire", also a place "where there will be weeping and nashing of teeth", "enternal punishment", and "Hell fire and brimstone". In any case it does not sound like fun.
It is not that God will not forgive them, but rather they choose not to accept God forgiveness, they turn their backs on God and the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ.
Satan is not doing the will of God, He is trying to stop God's will and forgiveness from being carried out.

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabriel:


So Satan tries to draw you into darkness to punish God, by then why punish those that fall prey, or those that chose willing to go?
Once he punished God by taking his children they is no point in punshiong them, surely they would work better as agents or warriors to his cause. Instead of punshing those that God deemed to evil to enter Heaven and sentenced to hell were they will be punished in HIS name.
Now as you said, or qouted, we must be tested then why ,if we fail, be sent to hell when surely as God he could create a new place for us to dwell where we can learn from our mistakes in life and so prevent Satan's minor victory?

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The Myth of Satan standing over the sinners and poking them with a fork, is not found in the Bible. It is a human tradition like the boggieman, something meant to scare us, but not from God. Don't get me wrong Satan exists as does Hell, But so does God, his love, and Heaven. The choice is ours.
God shortened the lives of man, because it was to hard for us. I don't think if we were sent to another "place" we would learn from our mistakes. On average we have 70+- years now, how often do we learn now? What good would it be if we were sent to another "place" if we had no memory of this earth, and our mistakes? What good would it be if we lived multible (sp?) lives on this earth, to learn from our mistakes, if we have no recall of our mistakes? Would we not make them again? After all we don't remember them so we don't know they are mistakes. If we do remember our mistakes why have us die and go to another "place" or come back? Why not just let us live until we learn? Because we don't learn. We have one shot at life that is why it is so important to submit and follow God, and let Him take care of the rest.
John D Harris

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

[LennonCook]

Durwyn, there IS an acurate definition of sin. It isnt some thats done wrong, it isnt something youv been yelled at for. It is a failure to love- God, Others, or Youself. And bla bla bla (Religeon teacher going on about irrelavant things probably), sin can take many forms. Thats about all i remember from RE lessons (probably going to fail it ).

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Durwyn:
Well as a Russian-Christian-Orthodox, and Orthodox I would say is the deepest form of Christianity, I can try and answer your tomentious question. In any case, a question like why Satan is evil is fairly simple to answer. Satan is evil because he is considered the ruler of Hell, a place for sinners to pay for their sins, and those may be of any kind.

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The deepest form of Christianity? What on earth makes you think or say that? Perhaps you should read your Bible, because Satan is described as the 'ruler of this world' and 'prince of the air' but not ruler of Hell. As John pointed out, Hell, if it is a place rather than a state of being (or nonexistence) will most certainly be Satans residence against his will, and a place of suffering, not dominion.