WAY OFF-TOPIC - A long overdue answer to fighter-thief - Page 5

Moridin · 02-03-2001, 02:12 PM

Cloudbringer--
Thank you for your reply. Sorry to hear about your brother and mother I try to convince myself that my sister is trying her best to 'isolate' my nephew from the evils of the world, but I can't help thinking that what he might read in a book is really 'tame' compared to what he may see on tv (especially the news!). My sister is doing her best to raise him and continously tells me that she wants him to grow up 'cultured' and to have an 'open mind'. If this is so how can she isolate him from these books and movies? Oh, well! I try to get along with my sister and do not want to lose touch with her. Thanks again for your perspective, it helps me understand the other point of view a little better.

Moiraine--
Have you read the Harry Potter books? With all the fuss about them, I actually went out and bought them and absolutely loved them & I have tried the 'sneaky' way to get my nephew to read the books, but my sister found out and I will not relate the 'fight' that followed. I guess if he doesn't read them now, then maybe in 8 years when he goes to college he can read them

Moiraine · 02-03-2001, 02:21 PM

Yes, I have read the four Harry Potter books, last summer on the beach. It was great for me and my son (he is 9 1/2) to share the same books for once. And I totally think that Mrs Rowlings is the greatest author (not long dead anyway) for children his age. What a terrific introduction to Fantasy !

Cloudbringer · 02-03-2001, 03:05 PM

Moridin, glad it was useful. Another bit of free advice (take it or leave it as you will) but it might be easier all around if you can find it in yourself to honor your sister's wishes with respect to raising her son. I know it's hard to watch someone do things you'd do differently, but she is his mother and that's a tough role to play all by itself!

Besides, I think you are right, your nephew will explore on his own terms one day and by then, he will be able to make the choices that are right for him. I remember my mother (who was at the time an extremely right-wing fanatic about such things ) telling me that makeup and Star Trek (and sci fi in general) were bad and would lead me down the wicked wicked path to hell...well, these days I adore Star Trek (sci fi/ fantasy) and somebody pass the lipgloss! And as far as I know, gossips notwithstanding, the people at church and Sunday School, don't think I'm too terribly wicked, either!

Moiraine · 02-03-2001, 04:04 PM

With all respect, Cloudbringer, I don't agree with you. My sister has a son about the same age as mine, but she is not like me at all, she is a very pessimistic person. She does not read any fiction at all, only history and sociology books, and she keeps telling her son real but sad stories about humanity, wars, revolutions, ... So he keeps saying that he does not like reading. But last summer, we were in holidays with my parents, my son and my nephew, but not my sister, and I bought him the first Harry Potter book. At first, he was very wary about a book given by an adult person, he accepted to read it only when my son had told him how the book was great. And ... got hooked ! I had to buy him the three next books, and I think these have totally changed his perception of reading. Wars and revolutions are educationally all right, but a children of 9 is too young, I think, for a good part of these hard truths.

Besides, a child has to have other influences than his parents to make him discover the world. I am always happy when he meets adult people different from me or my husband, so he can have the widest possible perspective on the world and choose knowingly what kind of adult he will grow to, and also become as open-minded as possible. I am currently starting to teach him a bit of English, so he can go on the Net and find friends of his own. He is very curious about all my friends on the board !

Moridin · 02-03-2001, 04:34 PM

Cloudbringer--
While I respect my sister's wishes in the way she raises her son, I do not have to like them or agree with them. I don't want to bring undo strain in my relationship with my sister (and brother-in-law) or b/w my nephew and them, but I agree with Moiraine in that he needs to experience life in it's fullest not just the filtered facts that my sister and her husband decide to tell him.
I consider myself a role model for my nephew, as I am the only male figure in his life aside from his dad. His dad is kind of a deadbeat and has never and probably will never amount to more than his weight in salt, and is probably mentally and emotionally on the same level as his son. Therefore, I find it difficult to sit by the wayside and watch the slow "brainwashing" that my sister is subjecting him too. Unfortunetly the world is not a perfect, happy, everbody-gets-along kind of place and you have to allow your children to see these 'bad' sides while you are there to explain why they are 'bad'. Otherwise your child is going to find these things out by themselves w/out any guidance and I think we have seen (in the news) what may happen in these circumstances.
I really do appreciate your advice and insights but I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one

--Was it you that said you like cats? I have two, Loki and Mrs. Kitten (should be Mrs. Hippo the way she eats )

Moiraine · 02-03-2001, 04:42 PM

I have two cats also - an old grumpy lady called Crapote, who came to us on Christmas day 8 years ago, she was very young and starving, having been abandoned by our neighbour, but she is a very decided little person - and a 1 year old very mischievous cat named Zebulon, that is probably a Skogkatt, and that I have found one evening at the train station (abandoned, starving, also).

Cloudbringer · 02-03-2001, 05:08 PM

Moiraine, Moridin,

Mea culpa! See, I tried to be brief and didn't explain well at all! I agree entirely that children need to see a bit of everything, to understand that there are choices in the world and childhood is indeed, far too short for sad stories and history to be their only literary endeavors! What I didn't make clear, but should have, is that I think your nephew, Moridin, WILL see you as a role model, and especially more so if he thinks there are things you can teach him that his mother won't. And he WILL have influences beyond his mother's control, in school and on the street. And he'll certainly know that you disagree with his mother on key issues. But one thing I see over and over with the kids I deal with is that the ones who learn to disrespect their parents at an early age, run into trouble.

Of course, I don't know the whole story and it's none of my business and I probably should have kept my advice to myself!

Cloudbringer · 02-03-2001, 05:22 PM

Yes, Moridin, I was the one who mentioned cats. Got three, Merlin, Inga and Longfellow. Longfellow was bequeathed to me when his owner died and the other two I rescued from a shelter. Merlin gives "mischievous" a whole new meaning! That cat has a personality like no other cat I've ever been owned by. He;'s currently living up to his nickname "Dances with Trashcans" and attempting to get into the covered trash can in the kitchen. Am I the only woman in North America with a bungee cord on her trash can?!

Moiraine, good for you, rescuing your two!

Moridin · 02-03-2001, 05:55 PM

Cloudbringer--
Thank you for the advice. I truly do appreciate it and am glad you did not keep it to yourself!

As for cats, my loki may give yours a run for the money. If there is anything in any sort of container (trash can, recycle bin, pen cup......ANYTHING) she will take it out if she can. I have left for weekends and come home to find everything out on the floor. Mind you she doesn't really make a mess and she won't tip things over, she will just pull things out with her teeth, dump them on the floor and leave them and then look for the next 'victim'. I finally (after many coffee filters and egg shells ) got a stainless steel trash can w/ lid for the kitchen!

Cloudbringer · 02-03-2001, 06:02 PM

Moridin, you are most gracious, milord!

Merlin likes to bring me things. He's a thief in a cat's body. His favorite things to steal are dirty dishcloths or face cloths, but he once hauled my comforter off the bed and and down the haul!

Loki sounds like a treasure hunter! Steel can in the kitchen...hmmm now that's a thought!

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02-03-2001, 02:12 PM	#41
Moridin Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,735	Cloudbringer-- Thank you for your reply. Sorry to hear about your brother and mother I try to convince myself that my sister is trying her best to 'isolate' my nephew from the evils of the world, but I can't help thinking that what he might read in a book is really 'tame' compared to what he may see on tv (especially the news!). My sister is doing her best to raise him and continously tells me that she wants him to grow up 'cultured' and to have an 'open mind'. If this is so how can she isolate him from these books and movies? Oh, well! I try to get along with my sister and do not want to lose touch with her. Thanks again for your perspective, it helps me understand the other point of view a little better. Moiraine-- Have you read the Harry Potter books? With all the fuss about them, I actually went out and bought them and absolutely loved them & I have tried the 'sneaky' way to get my nephew to read the books, but my sister found out and I will not relate the 'fight' that followed. I guess if he doesn't read them now, then maybe in 8 years when he goes to college he can read them

02-03-2001, 02:21 PM	#42
Moiraine Anubis Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps Age: 59 Posts: 2,474	Yes, I have read the four Harry Potter books, last summer on the beach. It was great for me and my son (he is 9 1/2) to share the same books for once. And I totally think that Mrs Rowlings is the greatest author (not long dead anyway) for children his age. What a terrific introduction to Fantasy !

02-03-2001, 03:05 PM	#43
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	Moridin, glad it was useful. Another bit of free advice (take it or leave it as you will) but it might be easier all around if you can find it in yourself to honor your sister's wishes with respect to raising her son. I know it's hard to watch someone do things you'd do differently, but she is his mother and that's a tough role to play all by itself! Besides, I think you are right, your nephew will explore on his own terms one day and by then, he will be able to make the choices that are right for him. I remember my mother (who was at the time an extremely right-wing fanatic about such things ) telling me that makeup and Star Trek (and sci fi in general) were bad and would lead me down the wicked wicked path to hell...well, these days I adore Star Trek (sci fi/ fantasy) and somebody pass the lipgloss! And as far as I know, gossips notwithstanding, the people at church and Sunday School, don't think I'm too terribly wicked, either!

02-03-2001, 04:04 PM	#44
Moiraine Anubis Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps Age: 59 Posts: 2,474	With all respect, Cloudbringer, I don't agree with you. My sister has a son about the same age as mine, but she is not like me at all, she is a very pessimistic person. She does not read any fiction at all, only history and sociology books, and she keeps telling her son real but sad stories about humanity, wars, revolutions, ... So he keeps saying that he does not like reading. But last summer, we were in holidays with my parents, my son and my nephew, but not my sister, and I bought him the first Harry Potter book. At first, he was very wary about a book given by an adult person, he accepted to read it only when my son had told him how the book was great. And ... got hooked ! I had to buy him the three next books, and I think these have totally changed his perception of reading. Wars and revolutions are educationally all right, but a children of 9 is too young, I think, for a good part of these hard truths. Besides, a child has to have other influences than his parents to make him discover the world. I am always happy when he meets adult people different from me or my husband, so he can have the widest possible perspective on the world and choose knowingly what kind of adult he will grow to, and also become as open-minded as possible. I am currently starting to teach him a bit of English, so he can go on the Net and find friends of his own. He is very curious about all my friends on the board !

02-03-2001, 04:34 PM	#45
Moridin Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,735	Cloudbringer-- While I respect my sister's wishes in the way she raises her son, I do not have to like them or agree with them. I don't want to bring undo strain in my relationship with my sister (and brother-in-law) or b/w my nephew and them, but I agree with Moiraine in that he needs to experience life in it's fullest not just the filtered facts that my sister and her husband decide to tell him. I consider myself a role model for my nephew, as I am the only male figure in his life aside from his dad. His dad is kind of a deadbeat and has never and probably will never amount to more than his weight in salt, and is probably mentally and emotionally on the same level as his son. Therefore, I find it difficult to sit by the wayside and watch the slow "brainwashing" that my sister is subjecting him too. Unfortunetly the world is not a perfect, happy, everbody-gets-along kind of place and you have to allow your children to see these 'bad' sides while you are there to explain why they are 'bad'. Otherwise your child is going to find these things out by themselves w/out any guidance and I think we have seen (in the news) what may happen in these circumstances. I really do appreciate your advice and insights but I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one --Was it you that said you like cats? I have two, Loki and Mrs. Kitten (should be Mrs. Hippo the way she eats )

02-03-2001, 04:42 PM	#46
Moiraine Anubis Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps Age: 59 Posts: 2,474	I have two cats also - an old grumpy lady called Crapote, who came to us on Christmas day 8 years ago, she was very young and starving, having been abandoned by our neighbour, but she is a very decided little person - and a 1 year old very mischievous cat named Zebulon, that is probably a Skogkatt, and that I have found one evening at the train station (abandoned, starving, also).

02-03-2001, 05:08 PM	#47
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	Moiraine, Moridin, Mea culpa! See, I tried to be brief and didn't explain well at all! I agree entirely that children need to see a bit of everything, to understand that there are choices in the world and childhood is indeed, far too short for sad stories and history to be their only literary endeavors! What I didn't make clear, but should have, is that I think your nephew, Moridin, WILL see you as a role model, and especially more so if he thinks there are things you can teach him that his mother won't. And he WILL have influences beyond his mother's control, in school and on the street. And he'll certainly know that you disagree with his mother on key issues. But one thing I see over and over with the kids I deal with is that the ones who learn to disrespect their parents at an early age, run into trouble. Of course, I don't know the whole story and it's none of my business and I probably should have kept my advice to myself!

02-03-2001, 05:22 PM	#48
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	Yes, Moridin, I was the one who mentioned cats. Got three, Merlin, Inga and Longfellow. Longfellow was bequeathed to me when his owner died and the other two I rescued from a shelter. Merlin gives "mischievous" a whole new meaning! That cat has a personality like no other cat I've ever been owned by. He;'s currently living up to his nickname "Dances with Trashcans" and attempting to get into the covered trash can in the kitchen. Am I the only woman in North America with a bungee cord on her trash can?! Moiraine, good for you, rescuing your two!

02-03-2001, 05:55 PM	#49
Moridin Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,735	Cloudbringer-- Thank you for the advice. I truly do appreciate it and am glad you did not keep it to yourself! As for cats, my loki may give yours a run for the money. If there is anything in any sort of container (trash can, recycle bin, pen cup......ANYTHING) she will take it out if she can. I have left for weekends and come home to find everything out on the floor. Mind you she doesn't really make a mess and she won't tip things over, she will just pull things out with her teeth, dump them on the floor and leave them and then look for the next 'victim'. I finally (after many coffee filters and egg shells ) got a stainless steel trash can w/ lid for the kitchen!

02-03-2001, 06:02 PM	#50
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	Moridin, you are most gracious, milord! Merlin likes to bring me things. He's a thief in a cat's body. His favorite things to steal are dirty dishcloths or face cloths, but he once hauled my comforter off the bed and and down the haul! Loki sounds like a treasure hunter! Steel can in the kitchen...hmmm now that's a thought!

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