It's not the Music!!

[trux]

Originally posted by AngelofDeath: This post is not meant to offend anybody. It is simply my views of things in the news. I invite eveyones opinion. I like to know what other people think. I was reading an article in Entertainment Weekly, that enraged me. Dateline: California- Three teen boys gruesomly murder a young girl, then blame it on the Music they listen to. Their lawyer says that because they listen to heavy metal, they lure this girl out and kill her. I only have a few questions........ Where are the parents?(One of the kids was kicked out of school, for possession of Pot, and a knife, and the mothers response was"But he had less than an ounce on him", uhhh, last time I checked, pot is illegal. Where does this pass the blame end? When do people take responsibility for acts they commit? What the hell is this world coming to? I have to say, I am a fan of heavy metal, and I do not worship the devil, or sacrifice virgins. I enjoy the music, and can seperate the lyrics from real life. So what do you think?

Screw that man. It's not heavy metal's fault and it's certainly not pot's fault. In the entire history of the world pot has never made anyone want to kill someone.

And as far as the music goes? That's a scapegoat excuse. If someone listens to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden or whatever they listen to and go kill someone then they were probably going to kill someone even if they had Bach playing in their headphones.

I watched an interesting movie recently called 15 Minutes about two eastern European men who come to America and commit a series of violent crimes. Something one man said during the movie sort of fits this issue. He said something to the effect of: "I love America...no one has to take responsibility for what they've done." Now I'm not making any broad negative statement about America, and I don't know how it is in other countries, but I bet you all the money I have that this took place in America.

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux

[trux]

Originally posted by trux: but I bet you all the money I have that this took place in America.

Oops...oh yeah...just saw the "California" label on AngelofDeath's original post. But hey! I was right!

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux

[Donut]

I don't think anyone should be executed unless they are over the age of six.

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Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by trux: Screw that man. It's not heavy metal's fault and it's certainly not pot's fault. In the entire history of the world pot has never made anyone want to kill someone. And as far as the music goes? That's a scapegoat excuse. If someone listens to Judas Priest or Iron Maiden or whatever they listen to and go kill someone then they were probably going to kill someone even if they had Bach playing in their headphones.

Yes, what about the movie "A Clockwork Orange" where the anti-hero Alex brutalizes a couple in their own home to the tune of "Singing in the Rain?" Or the fact that he gets turned on sexually and violently by Beethoven's Ninth Symphony "Ode to Joy"? One could just as easily blame Beethoven or Gene Kelly.



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[Yorick]

*whispers* Angel, I'll give you half of Trux's money if you answer that it took place outside America.

Donut, physical age of six, or mental age of six?

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[SSJ4Sephiroth]

bah, for some reason everyone blames the things that give us entertainment instead of taking the blame themselves. if its their actions, its their blame and they should accept it. nothing influenced the actions, not heavy metal, not video games, not my subliminal messages ive been sending to them in their dreams! okay, maybe it was that last one, but they cant prove it... okay, back to seriousness. i think blaming any entertainment industry for somebodies actions is just foolishness. if computer games or heavy metal music or anything that ive ever done, played, or listened to, made someone turn into a violent killing maching that went out and murdered people, then id have a life sentence and everyone in my town would be six feet under. im not a violent person, but i play a LOT of violent games, like Half-Life, QuakeIII, etc., and ive never had a sudden urge to kill somebody that ive followed up on.

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With each kill, I grow wiser, and with added wisdom, I grow stronger. Does anybody have any idea what this means?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by SSJ4Sephiroth: bah, for some reason everyone blames the things that give us entertainment instead of taking the blame themselves. if its their actions, its their blame and they should accept it. nothing influenced the actions, not heavy metal, not video games, not my subliminal messages ive been sending to them in their dreams! okay, maybe it was that last one, but they cant prove it... okay, back to seriousness. i think blaming any entertainment industry for somebodies actions is just foolishness. if computer games or heavy metal music or anything that ive ever done, played, or listened to, made someone turn into a violent killing maching that went out and murdered people, then id have a life sentence and everyone in my town would be six feet under. im not a violent person, but i play a LOT of violent games, like Half-Life, QuakeIII, etc., and ive never had a sudden urge to kill somebody that ive followed up on.

For some reason? For these defendants it's so that they will get off with diminished responsiblility. For observers it's to find the root causes of social problems. The problems are many, including, but not limited to the arts. the arts DO desensitise and glorify violence. America - the source of much of the violent movies and games - is a violent society. You are claiming no link purely on your own response to such material? You are not everyone, not everyone is as in control of their faculties and mental powers as you abviously are. Many, from an early age, are exposed to heroic figures that beat up and shoot up others, and have no regard for human life. The lives of others is cheapened in such films. Heros don't die, insignificant whelps do - and deserve it. A gun is the answer to any problem, and crime pays. That is often the message in modern art. Art is reflective of, and a shaper of, the culture from which it arises. It is both chicken and egg.

Artists do have an obligation to be aware of the effect their art can have on society and on an individual. How can you not see this? Acknowledging this in no way takes away blame from the individual, but should instead provoke thought about what we expose our children to, and what we choose to expose ourselves to.

As creative beings we can only create from our experience. What goes in, comes out. A songwriter is only able to draw on the music they hear.

If someone feeds purely on a diet of violence, hostility and warfare, while it may not make them a murder, it can certainly make them more abrasive, rude and aggressive in contact with others can it not?

There is the old saying that it takes a villiage to raise a child. Are we not part of the global villiage? If so, who are the teachers of morality and ethics. Time and again I read kids posts on gaming message boards less "mature" than this and read a regurgitated philosophy directly siphoned from a COMPUTER GAME. It is so transparent it gets unbelievable at times.

The power of the movies, sitcoms and radio in determining taste, trends, habits, morals etc is long documented. We had an influx of American youth culture trends that hit Australia. The only transportation was via the arts. Certain Australian migrant groups decided that they identified with the African-American anger, and formed gangs, dressed imitatively and immersed themselves in Af-Am music and culture. Basketball started challenging crickets popularity at schools.

Australia never had slavery and these groups came voluntarily, so the rage was totally unfounded, misplaced and mistakenly incorperated IMO. The messages they identified with were very real, purely artisticly transferred and shaped the behaviour and culture. I saw this with my own eyes.

Nobody short of a desperate defense lawyer would argue that the music diminishes responsibility. Finding sources and reasons why someone like James Bulger gets killed by infants is something of a priority though. At an age when behaviour is imitative, these two kids did a horrific deed most of us wouldn't even have nightmares about.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 08-20-2001).]

[Moridin]

Of course it is the music, it is whatever the media says it is, isn't it

It bothers me that the media never seems to want to get 'tough' on these issues and actually ask the questions like "Are the parents to blame?" "What were these kids background?"....they just latch onto whatever the lawyer tells the defendant to say and they have a story, with little or no effort. To actually tackle an issue, they would have to work a little, and we can't have that now can we!

I agree with everyone else on this issue. The entertainment industry cannot be held accountable for the actions of those that choose to view/listen to their music/games/movies. Like Yorick stated, what about all the cases of kids that listen to the music and don't commit violent acts? I also find it a little strange that we always here about the violence created by music/movies, if this were the case, would we not have just as many individuals choosing a career in Astronomy b/c they saw the movie "Contact" or dressing in 70's disco outfits b/c they listen to the BeeGees?

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

[oldbittercraig]

As a further indictment of the American legal system, you'll notice that Judas Priest and Ozzy have been put on trial, but no gangster rappers...

why? Because when white kids kill themselves or each other people get upset, when minorities kill each other no one (in a position of power or wealth) cares.

[trux]

Originally posted by Sazerac: Yes, what about the movie "A Clockwork Orange" where the anti-hero Alex brutalizes a couple in their own home to the tune of "Singing in the Rain?" Or the fact that he gets turned on sexually and violently by Beethoven's Ninth Symphony "Ode to Joy"? One could just as easily blame Beethoven or Gene Kelly.

That's exactly my point. It doesn't matter what music people listen to. If the impulse is in them to commit murder or whatever other crime, they're gonna find a way/reason to do it.

A Clockwork Orange is a perfect example of this. Alex is a brutally violent young teen. The murderous nature is in him. The music he enjoys happens to turn him on, but Beethoven never told him to kill/rape/brutalize the many people he does in the book/movie.

And, Yorick...you wouldn't get much - $5.00 and a half pack of cigarettes.

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux