Assassin kit class - blek!!

[Robin, Thief of Hearts]

What're your views on this class?

I ran through the game 2 times, once with an Assassin dualled to fighter, and a second time with a pure Assassin. Both times the character was weak.

Poisoning is truly misunderstood by the game writers, IMHO, as it surely does *not* compensate for the loss of the thief skill per-level gains. It works NOTHING like they describe in the kit info too. You can poison a stack of arrows and pump em out at the enemy for about 9 seconds. That's a lot of arrows, and sure does not reflect the one-shot weapon ability they mention.


Assassins get a plus 1 to hit and an extra plus 1 to damage. This certainly does not compare with the Swashbuckler 's plus with each 3-5 levels, or with a plain fighter's gains. How you're expected to hit anything with the miserable THAC0, I don't know.

Anybody else tried out Assassins and liked the kit? What did you do?

[Memnoch]

I've been meaning to but never got around to it. Too many other classes to try.

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The assasian class in quite hard to implement, as in the pnp game the assain only recives the benfit of identiying posines, so this kit is about the role playing or justification of charecters. it can also be used by any charecter so they had to make it up from scratch. BUt the -10 penalty is to much as a swashbuckler can eiasly get every ability to about 100, wheras assaisns are lucky to get 4 to 100.

i tried the kit, and got to tademeet and gave up beacuse it was so weak on its own. IT does work well if you just do stealth abilites and then dual class to fighter. But th poisen ability would have been better off with something like people sellign bottled posins that only assasins can use and that coat a weapon till used and only work a few times and a vareity of poisens too.

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The most Holy and Divine Godly and Wise Noble and Kind Knights of the Ever burning Flame Imperishable of Eternal Hope and Faith from which all Life will find its Perfect Gleaming Shining Defence Force of honour and Righteous Justice to protect them form the Corrupt Amoral Baneful Evil Flagitious Nefarious Vile wretched Depraved Low Base Sordid and dirty Wizard of ultimate doom Who wishes to destroy This Eden like Land of Bountiful Promise And Racial Harmony with great natural beauty which He dare not despoil with Grasping Talons of Destroying Misery Death pollution destruction anhilation War Strife Xenocide and Hatred

[Azred]

I'm currently taking an assassin through the game; a 4-member evil party. I altered the poison effects in "spcl422.spl" to make the poison more effective --at level 13 those poisoned must save or die (like wyvern poison). Also, I gave the kit an extra +1 save vs poison every 4 levels. I would still like to see some improved combat ability, but so far I have had no complaints about the kit.

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An intelligent mind is the key to the universe.

The most distressing thing about practicing magic is the fact that even the most learned sorcerers cannot accurately describe what magic *is*....

[Robin, Thief of Hearts]

Ok, -- the MAIN problem with the regular in-game class is that you get good and useful things for killing - poison, and a hefty backstab multiplier- but you cannot reliably implement them because the THAC0 is so very poor.

Combined with nearly zero extra thief abilities at low levels, and you have a thief with low HP, who cannot reliably penetrate the environment, cannot fight, and cannot depend on a backstab. Oh and of course no magic, or heavy armour, or shielding. Completely replaceable by an invis spell, cause all he can do is scout.

Now I don't want to have extra thief abilities really, I want to sneak up and kill. The other stuff is fine for those burglar types.
So, OK, the penalty to thief per level increases is acceptable.

***But not the low THAC0.***

Assassins should have a "killing blow" ability, based not merely on the poison, but on their own skill. They should be precise. They should be ... surgical. This means that they need to- HIT more often when doing a backstab.

I know that the THAC0 improves when you hide. Is it possible to get this to improve more drastically by tweaking the kit? I've done everything I could to get the THAC0 down - Weapons skill gauntlets, IOUN stones, Belts of Strength, weapons with a good THAC0 bonus - and still I miss.
ARGH>>>>!!

[Azred]

Originally posted by Robin, Thief of Hearts: Assassins should have a "killing blow" ability, based not merely on the poison, but on their own skill. They should be precise. They should be ... surgical. This means that they need to- HIT more often when doing a backstab.

How about an "assassination" ability that has a range of 1 (melee) and the chance to kill outright any opponent having fewer HD or levels than the assassin? Monks get Quivering Palm once/day and this ability would be similar, so how often should it be allowed? I'm thinking once/day per 5 levels, given the HD limitation (since Quivering Palm can drop dragons). Thoughts, anyone?



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An intelligent mind is the key to the universe.

The most distressing thing about practicing magic is the fact that even the most learned sorcerers cannot accurately describe what magic *is*....

[ScottG]

I've said it B4 and I'll prob. end up saying it again:

Have a Dual-Fighter/Assasin. 10th level on the fighter and then dual to the Assasin. What, can't dual to a subclass? Thats just an illogical pi$$poor implementation of programing. Use shadowkeeper while your still a fighter and set the subclass to Assasin - when you dual to a thief you are an assasin.

With a good girdle and a katana (as well as being fairly high in level) you can do a 200+ backstab hit.

[Northraven]

I have been playing a new game as an assasin and have to say I like the class. Sure, I'm having to rely on potions of master thievery until I raise my lockpicking/disarming skills up but the other perks are worth the slightly lowered amount of points you get per lvl.

Also, I believe it is written somewhere that your poison attack DOES become more potent with lvl. I am finding it a useful ability, one of those things that dosen't have a blatantly obvious use, but is powerful in a subtle way. I find it to be the ultimate mage-cast disruptor. I sneak up behind the unsuspecting caster and backstab him/her, even if they make their save, they still take 1 dam a sec for several seconds, and many times they do not. Even if the mage survives the initial backstab, the constant poison damage disrupts their castings, effectivly eliminating their biggest threat to your party.

Backstab is a great attack, and an assasin can get up to a X7 backstab multiplyer. The above mentioned Swashbuckler gets NO backstab at all in exchange for his enhanced to hit and damage figures and extra proficiency slots, he will never equal a fighter in combat, but has given up his best attack mode as a thief in exchange for his half-assed fighting prowess...not worth it IMHO, if you want to hack things up face-to-face, make a fighter or better yet a beserker. If you want to stab your enemies in the back and kill and maim with a single dishonorable blow then the Assasin is your man.

[Earthdog]

i think all of yalls posts on this topic are very valid. Youve all made alot of good points here.

Correct me if im wrong but (IMHO) assassins are just figher thug type people with minor theiving abilities. I can see why they get backstab mulitpliers. But they should be better in open combat because, after all, they ARE trained killers. Not all victims will be killed from behind. Some will actually put up a fight. The poisons should be much more effective. I can understand that a low level assassin has to learn to make his own poisons. But as he goes up in level they should get more effective. At medium high levels the poison should be potent enough to kill if the victim fails his saving throw. at high levels the victim shouldnt even GET a saving throw. The Grandfather of Assassins according to D&D rules is extrmemly tough. No saving throws if he poisons you. Thats why its so hard to become Gradfather of Assassins, if the standing Grandfather hits you..... youre dead.

Another point is, since an assassin makes his own poisons, you couldnt take an antidote or build up an immunity to certain poisons, and then challenge the Grandfather. His poisons are his own and the most effective in the world. There ARENT any antidotes to his poisons.

I agree with what yall said about having a killer blow like the quivering palm.
The assassin is a proficient killer. but they didnt really make the assassin one in this game. i wish they would would make the classes according to D&D specs. that would make the game a whole lot more enjoyable. Unfortunately you wouldnt be able to fight a Lich in the game if they did. if they did youd be dust in the wind.... literally.

Had something else to say but one of me kids distracted me and now i cant remember what it was!!!! UUUUUUUUGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate it when that happens!!!!will remember and put it in another post

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THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Northraven]

All good points Earthdog...I would like to see the Assasin implemented a bit more like you are saying but I still think the class is pretty good as is. Also if the desingers did as you suggest (which would be cool) they could balance the Assasin's advantages out by making certain monsters ie Dragons and Liches immune to these attacks...after all Liches are undead uber-mages, they deserve SOME perks don't they?