The murder of a murderer....

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote:

Two wrongs don't make a right.[/QB][/QUOTE]Nope, two wrongs do not make a right...they make it even...or in some circles it is called Justice.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Alexander: ...the mere existance of the death penalty makes it possible for you or a loved one to be executed (re: murdered) by the government for a crime you didn't commit. By supporting the death penalty, you obviously have no problem with that prospect, or am I wrong?

Everyone runs the risk of being arrested (much less being executed, in the extreme) for a crime they might not have committed, simply because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is an unfortunate side-effect of our current legal system; believe me, I wish we had a better one but that is simply not the case. I may not have the statistics in front of me, but I would wager that belle, my loved one, is at least 1000 times more likely to die in her car on the way to work than to be arrested for a crime she did not commit. Would I suggest that we throw away cars so that she does not get hurt? Of course not; neither should we throw away a legal system that works because sometimes it isn't perfect.
A question, then: how would you, Alexander, make the legal system better? I am open to ideas.

Originally posted by Alexander: If a 17-year old is not considered an adult, then a 17-year old should not be tried as one.

Normally, I would agree. In many cases, juvenile offenders are given a "clean slate" when they turn 18--their criminal history is purged. However, if a 17-year-old is already committing violent crimes then what will they do as an adult?
There are two minors in Lewisville, not far from where I live, who murdered their 6-year-old sibling. What should be done with the 10-year-old boy and the 15-year-old girl? Their crime is heinous, indeed, but I would not condone the death penalty for them, simply lengthy prison sentences.
I'm not as bloodthirsty as some might think. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[Arnabas]

Ok, how about this:
Some of you liked my thoughts on using deathrow criminals for drug testing. I still find that viable. But here's another thought:
Most (if not all) of us agree that it is stupid that murderers and pedophiles get free housing and food while innocents live on the street and starve to death. So, let's save some money by dropping all the really hard-core criminals on an island somewhere where they have to fend for themselves, grow their own food, etc. It can be like Survivor:the Criminal edition.
Ok, now after laughing, rolling your eyes, or whatever, think about it: they get to live, we save the money, and they never get close to civilized society again.

Originally posted by Arnabas: Ok, how about this: Some of you liked my thoughts on using deathrow criminals for drug testing. I still find that viable.

That’s what the Nazis did.

Originally posted by Arnabas: But here's another thought: Most (if not all) of us agree that it is stupid that murderers and pedophiles get free housing and food while innocents live on the street and starve to death.

Hmmm, Have you ever been in prison? It’s not the free food and housing lark you seem to imagine it is.

Originally posted by Arnabas: So, let's save some money by dropping all the really hard-core criminals on an island somewhere where they have to fend for themselves, grow their own food, etc. It can be like Survivor:the Criminal edition. Ok, now after laughing, rolling your eyes, or whatever, think about it: they get to live, we save the money, and they never get close to civilized society again.[/qb]

Again Thats Pretty much what the Nazis & Soviets did, It’s called concentration camps.

[ 05-30-2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Dramnek_Ulk ]

[Arnabas]

I never said that prison was a fun place to hang out. But I think that I would rather have a warm place to sleep and food to eat than a cardboard box and half-eaten sandwich, even with the other problems there. We are hearing all the time of increasing rights for those in prison-- rights which we do not afford to some members on the outside of those prisons. Why is it preferable to allow an innocent to suffer?
This is a very divissive topic, which will never have a middle ground (kind of like mime or opera).
And as for the comparison to Nazis, lets not go there...
The Jews who died in concentration camps weren't there because they wanted to see what the inside of a toddlers brain looked like.

Originally posted by Azred: >belle, my loved one, is at least 1000 times more likely to die in her car on the way to work than to be arrested for a crime she did not commit. Would I suggest that we throw away cars so that she does not get hurt? Of course not; neither should we throw away a legal system that works because sometimes it isn't perfect. A question, then: how would you, Alexander, make the legal system better? I am open to ideas.

Abolishing the death penalty is a first positive step, as can be Cleary shown, it has a racial bias.
I.e. IT’S RACIST!!! Therefore plays not part in Justice.
And it is no deterrent, it appeals to peoples base emotive aspects. But it goes against the Unifursal declaration of human rights, which America is supposedly a signatory off.

Originally posted by Alexander: Normally, I would agree. In many cases, juvenile offenders are given a "clean slate" when they turn 18--their criminal history is purged. However, if a 17-year-old is already committing violent crimes then what will they do as an adult? There are two minors in Lewisville, not far from where I live, who murdered their 6-year-old sibling. What should be done with the 10-year-old boy and the 15-year-old girl? Their crime is heinous, indeed, but I would not condone the death penalty for them, simply lengthy prison sentences. I'm not as bloodthirsty as some might think. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] [/QB]

Even lengthy prison sentences are pathetic and barbaric; you simply cannot expect children of this age to fully understand what they have done. They need to be made to understand the enormity of what they have done, Then pending psychologists report they can either be detained in a secure mental institution for life, or receive treatment to allow them to take their place as a member of normal society again.

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote: Originally posted by Arnabas: But here's another thought: Most (if not all) of us agree that it is stupid that murderers and pedophiles get free housing and food while innocents live on the street and starve to death. Hmmm, Have you ever been in prison? It’s not the free food and housing lark you seem to imagine it is.

State penetentiary in State College Pennsylvania (along route 322) is not too bad compared to some of the military barracks I have lived in. Cells are clean and not as cramped as some, good lighting, a tolerable amount of personal space, prisoners have access to cable TV (52" screen) computer work stations, a top of the line Library, they receive 3 meals a day and have both AC and heating when appropriate.
They have new nautilus equipment, a golf driving range, several basketball courts, a football field and a dairy farm that prisoners may work on.

Of course they have no control over their daily schedule, they get up when told, they go to bed when told ....how exactly is this different than being a kid living at home? or enlisted in the Navy?

Ok when your a kid living at home your parents love you....but still I think there is little room for complaint by those prisoners.

[ 05-30-2002, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote:

Two wrongs don't make a right.[/QUOTE]Nope, two wrongs do not make a right...they make it even...or in some circles it is called Justice.[/QB][/QUOTE]No, for Justice transcends that,
If country Z kills 1000 children of country A, is then right that country A goes and kills 1000 children of country Z?
For the death penalty as implemented in America is nothing more than base emotively motivated vengeance which is Cleary Racist, and goes against the universal declaration of human rights.
An eye for an eye, and such barbarities of it is engendered.

[Arnabas]

Does anybody remember the case (waaaaaay back) of the guy who killed somebody and got away with little or no jail time because he had eaten a twinkie and the sugar made him mentally unbalanced?
There was also another case not so long ago where a woman committed murder and got a light sentance because (according to the judge) "this was her first murder". The way things are going really frightens me.
Johnny:"Mom, me an' Billy just killed Suzy and cracked her head open with a brick!"
Mom:"Oh, Johnny! No dessert for you!"
Johnny:"Moooommmmmm!"
Mom:"Ok... Cake, but no ice-cream on top."

Actually Dram, can't argue about killing children with you, because Im pretty much agaisnt killing kids for anything.

But I watched a thing on tv the other day, about African Americans were saying that the death penalty was racist because there was something like a 25% disparity in who was on death row.....Another african American pointed out, that perhaps this was because young african american males were 25% more likely to prey on and ravage their neighbors. Perhaps there is a point there...I dont know....what I do know, is that I would rather put a person to death than have them sucking resources from the society for the rest of his/her life. I think if other countries are really worried about the horrible deal the US prisoners on death row are having, that maybe we can work out a deal..you take them and do what you want with them....as long as they can never return to the US.