Dual Wielding?

[karlosovic]

what are the rules for double weapons ? like dire mace, 2-ended swords etc. I like the look of the 2-ended sword cause it's like darth maul from SW-Ep1. what are the rules though reguarding penalties and feats ? someone said ambidextrous and 2-weapons fighting dont help ?

[Nerull]

Originally posted by karlosovic: what are the rules for double weapons ? like dire mace, 2-ended swords etc. I like the look of the 2-ended sword cause it's like darth maul from SW-Ep1. what are the rules though reguarding penalties and feats ? someone said ambidextrous and 2-weapons fighting dont help ?

Yes they do, but not the ones gained by the ranger (he gets Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting for free, but only when fighting with two weapons (one in each hand) and in light armor). You still need Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting, but you are stuck taking the feats as regular feat selections if you want to use a double weapon. In addition, all except the quarterstaff are exotic weapons, so you will need to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency with the double weapon of your choice (in your example, the two-bladed sword), so you actually need 3 feats to start with (unless you take the first two and use a quarterstaff, then when you hit 3rd level (or 2nd level if you are a fighter) use that feat that you get to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency). Thus, only a human fighter could start out using a two-bladed sword to full effect (since he gets 3 feats to spend right at 1st level: one that all characters get a first level, a second for being human (racial ability), and a third for being a 1st level fighter). Fighters of other races can only get two feats to start with (one for 1st level character, and another for 1st level character) so they are stuck using a quarterstaff until 2nd level, when they can take Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Other classes have it even rougher, though, since they only get one feat at first level. Thus, only if you are human can you get Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting both at first level as a non-fighter (since you get the bonus feat for being human), then have to wait until 3rd level to get Exotic Weapon Proficiency. The other races who are not fighters have to wait until 6th level to be able to use a two-bladed sword to full effect (one feat each at 1st, 3rd, and 6th level, so not very efficient). The point: if you plan to use a double weapon (except quarterstaff), take levels in fighter.

The advantage of double weapons? Both blades do the same damage, so it is like using two of the same medium sized weapon (for example, the two-bladed sword does 1d8/1d8 with critical range of 19-20/x2, so it is like dual-wielding two longswords). However, because they are connected together, the off-hand weapon is automatically considered a light weapon, resulting in lower penalties. For example, if you have Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting and dual-wield two longswords, you get -4 penalty to-hit with each weapon. However, if you use a two-bladed sword, the penalty is only -2 to-hit with each weapon (since the off-hand weapon is considered light). The disadvantage is having to use a feat to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency, while the regular warrior types (and all elves) are already proficient with the longsword.

However, if you wish to be a Darth Maul-like dual wielder, go right ahead! My recommendation is to play as a human fighter, and take the following feats at the levels listed:

1st: Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (weapon of choice)

2nd: Weapon Focus (weapon of choice); you are more likely to find magical versions of a weapon in chests when you have a weapon focus

3rd: Power Attack (helps in bashing chests + sets you up to take Cleave)

4th: Weapon Specialization (weapon of choice)

6th: Cleave + one other feat of your choice (you get 2 at this level)

8th: Improved Critical (weapon of choice)

9th: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (weapon of choice)

If you play as a fighter of another race, you will take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at 2nd, Weapon Focus at 3rd, then probably take Weapon Specialization at 4th, then Power Attack and Cleave at 6th (though you might want Power Attack at 4th, then take Weapon Specialization at 6th, depending on your chest-opening ability). The feats at 8th and 9th would be the same.

Hope this helps!

[Bardan the Slayer]

AFAIK, the quarterstaff does not count as a double weapon. It doesn't say it is on the property screen. This is probably because pure wizards can use the staff at first level, and it would be rough to give a wizard a -6 to hit with a staff.

[Nerull]

Originally posted by Bardan the Slayer: AFAIK, the quarterstaff does not count as a double weapon. It doesn't say it is on the property screen. This is probably because pure wizards can use the staff at first level, and it would be rough to give a wizard a -6 to hit with a staff.

Hmmm...I was going by the manual and the PnP game, but obviously it is wrong within NwN. That means you are stuck using regular weapons until you get the proper proficiencies. Not too huge a loss, considering how easy the initial areas of the Official Campaign are.

[koconnor100]

Dual weidling rocks on rangers !

Why ?

Not only do you get the additional feats.

But YOu get ranger spells. Like Bulls Strength (adds a d4+1 str, lasts all day, so thats minimum +1 to hit and +1 damage right there to cancel out any penalties.)

And Cats Grace (adds d4+1 dex, so +1 to your ac, minimum, lasts all day, to balance out that you're wearing lighter armor)

And don't forget the fact that you're getting an extra attack in per round more than balances out the 2 or 3 or 4 points your ac goes down. Especially if you're racking up that strength. The extra attack, after all, hits at the same chances as your first attack, it's not 5pts back like all other additional attacks.

(edit)
Hmmm...I think I just remembered...paladins get bulls strength and rangers get cats grace...oops..ignore that...only mages get both....

Well...some potions for emergancies can balance out a lot...

[ 04-23-2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: koconnor100 ]

[Raistlin Majere]

Im rather embarassed to ask, but, where do you see how many attacks you do per round?

[Raistlin Majere]

never mind. i figured it out. sheesh, my ranger swings 5 times in a round dealing around 15-25 damage per hit!

Ah yes, there is nothing more fun than swinging sharp objects around like a mother@#!?&^% maniac...hell, that should be my sig!

[Nerull]

Originally posted by The Whackmiester: Ah yes, there is nothing more fun than swinging sharp objects around like a mother@#!?&^% maniac...hell, that should be my sig!

I wish they had prestige classes in the OC; there is one introduced in PnP (Masters of the Wild sourcebook) called the Tempest. When he maxes out his level, he gets the same number of attacks (with similar bonuses) with his off-hand as with his main hand. He has the same restrictions as a ranger (cannot be a double weapon, cannot wear medium or heavy armor), so might as well be a ranger beforehand. However, 8 attacks a round is very, very nasty!