LittleBigHorn

[Kaz]

Milamber:
I was not saying that every American is a stuck up being who thinks he's better than us all, I was saying that there are probably more Americans who think along those lines (if not as extremely) than Germans, for instance. Of course, maybe it was just the place I used to live which gave me that impression. If you want to hear anti-American stereotypes, you should hear my brother rant sometimes - he had very bad experiences with the American school system and some of his classmates.

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I am the great Kazara

[Grand-Ranger]

No no no no, yall took this the wrong way. I dont have anything agaisnt anybody, but stuff happens. I mean can you blame the english for wanting to explore new lands? You could say "They could have tryed to come to an agreement with the indains or somthing." But really come on people, do you think the indains would have took the time to actually lession to the english? I think not. Exspeicly some tribes, such as the pawny.

As for jews, sure there wear moives and stuff. But think about it. Jews have suffered probley the most, and there is no "we have rights" people for them. No one ever really talks about them. You will always see some protest or another going on of other races, and yes, somtimes there will be somthing about stuff in the middle east going on. But the jews dont get near as many suporters. Thats all there is too it.

Maybe beacause they want to leave it behind them and not try and get revenge or whatever. If that be the case then probley shouldnt be making that big a deal of it. Apologies.

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So if in the forest look behind you, because that where the ranger is going to be

The ranger looked at the place out side of the elven town near the river, he looked near the rocks, then they showed the way to....

Grand-Jester of Laghing Hyenas

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Rikard: Americans tend to think themselfs more important as other people also illustated in the Vietnam war what the americans called a huge victory for the vietnamese and they were complaining how many men the american had lost a total of 60000 men... compared to 2,500000 vietnamese...

There is a word which refers to what you are describing: NATIONALISM. It was invented in its modern form in EUROPE, and has achieved its worst extremes in history in EUROPE. So cut out the holier than thou crap.

Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee is indeed a good book. No, there is no justifying how the Indians were treated. The story of the European invasion of the Americas and the treatment of the Indians by the Europeans (and later the Americans after the US became an independent country) is yet another shameful blot on the human race. It differs from many, many other similar events only in that it is one of the more recent in history.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Grand-Ranger: No no no no, yall took this the wrong way. I dont have anything agaisnt anybody, but stuff happens. I mean can you blame the english for wanting to explore new lands? You could say "They could have tryed to come to an agreement with the indains or somthing." But really come on people, do you think the indains would have took the time to actually lession to the english? I think not. Exspeicly some tribes, such as the pawny. As for jews, sure there wear moives and stuff. But think about it. Jews have suffered probley the most, and there is no "we have rights" people for them. No one ever really talks about them. You will always see some protest or another going on of other races, and yes, somtimes there will be somthing about stuff in the middle east going on. But the jews dont get near as many suporters. Thats all there is too it. Maybe beacause they want to leave it behind them and not try and get revenge or whatever. If that be the case then probley shouldnt be making that big a deal of it. Apologies.

I have to agree with Billikins the Bold: have I slipped into a parallel universe? No one ever talks about what happened to the Jews? Huh? Dude, the story of the Holocaust and the plight of the Jews under Nazi Germany is one of the most talked about and well known events of the 20th century.

As for the European "exploration" of America: lol, if only it were that. In truth, the Indians seldom objected to white explorers passing through their country. What they had a problem with was the hordes of settlers, supported by armies, trying to displace them from their land.


[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 08-31-2001).]

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Kaz: Milamber: I was not saying that every American is a stuck up being who thinks he's better than us all, I was saying that there are probably more Americans who think along those lines (if not as extremely) than Germans, for instance. Of course, maybe it was just the place I used to live which gave me that impression. If you want to hear anti-American stereotypes, you should hear my brother rant sometimes - he had very bad experiences with the American school system and some of his classmates.

Kaz, where do you get off generalizing on americans like that? You probably think there are more americans that think like that? What kind of statement is that? Have you been to America, do have American friends? Has any single American on this forum ever gave the impression that the US is the best and that Americans are high and mighty? I certainly haven't. I cannot say if there are more Americans then say, Germans that say they are better then the rest, b/c I have never been to Germany. I have met a few Germans though...are you suggesting I make judgement of all Germans based on the thoughts and attitudes of the few that I have met? And so what if you brother had a bad experience in an American school, that is too bad and I'm sorry it had to happen to him, but do not judge all of America b/c of a lousy experience at one school.

Anymore American bashing and I will leave this forum for good! I can tolerate jokes, but out-right bashing is intolerable and I can find a better place to spend my time!


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Proud member of the Lecherous Hillbillies...oh no wait the Laughing Hyenas

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Kaz Only the strong survive? That might be true in nature, but we are now "civilized" people whose business is it to make sure everybody survive. We no longer live in a "kill or be killed" world. And also... look at some of the products of our civilization: drug addicts, gangs, high crime rate, racism, injustice, corruption... the list is endless. Would you call this "strong"? Milamber: I was not saying that every American is a stuck up being who thinks he's better than us all, I was saying that there are probably more Americans who think along those lines (if not as extremely) than Germans, for instance. Of course, maybe it was just the place I used to live which gave me that impression. If you want to hear anti-American stereotypes, you should hear my brother rant sometimes - he had very bad experiences with the American school system and some of his classmates.

It's kinda ironic to hear you say that Germans don't think they are the superior race. That's what WWII was about, right? Exterminating the inferior Jews to purify the world? I'm trying to make a point by saying that. I know that's in the past and this generation had nothing to do with it, but me making that statement is as valid a stereotype as the one being pinned on us Americans here. How about this. Let's not cast any blanket statements on entire countries. Let's not even hint that Americans in general might think they are better then everybody else, because I assure you that is just as unfair as me assuming all Germans are Nazi white supremacists.

I know you weren't judging any of us Americans individually, but I take it as if you were judging me personally when you stereotype my country. Blanket stereotypes in general aren't fair and they plant seeds of ignorance in the people who read them. National pride is something that is not entirely dead in America. While I might not agree with everything our government does, I am still proud to live here. Let's not mistake pride with arrogance.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB


[This message has been edited by MILAMBER (edited 08-31-2001).]

[Grand-Ranger]

Beside, if the english didnt do what they did then we probley wouldnt have become "The land of oppirtunity" and the must rishest and powerful country that we have become.

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So if in the forest look behind you, because that where the ranger is going to be

The ranger looked at the place out side of the elven town near the river, he looked near the rocks, then they showed the way to....

Grand-Jester of Laghing Hyenas

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Grand-Ranger: Beside, if the english didnt do what they did then we probley wouldnt have become "The land of oppirtunity" and the must rishest and powerful country that we have become.

Oh, why didn't you say that from the begining? Now, what we should do is obvious, right? Let's continue this method, since it is such a great one. Let's expand the US into Canada and Mexico. If the Canadians and Mexicans object, we'll treat'em like we did the Indians. Yea. After all, the ends clearly justify the means. Who cares if we have to wipe out millions of people, hell, so long as the government comes out even stronger in the end.

Grand-Ranger,
Granted, not all Native American Tribes were outrightly hostile, but you have to take into consideration the the Pawnee had a reputation long before the white man came around for being hostile to other Indians!
Pawnee History

Another great read is "The Frontiersmen" for more historical-based tale of how the midwest was settled by Daniel Boone, Jacob Greathouse and others... Exerpts from Chapter 5
I grew up on the Little Miami River and near Fort Ancient where there was nothing left of the native peoples but arrowheads easily found (thirty-five years ago at least) in the freshly tilled fields every spring along with shards of pottery, artifacts taken from the areas around The Great Serpent Mound (Photo) , and memories of white people's struggles to "survive" there documented in books relating to this nation's history...never mind the fact that other nations had a history here centuries before the white man came along.

Another fantastic book is Sakajawea, (sometimes spelled Sacajawea or Sacagawea, but I believe the book I speak of uses the "k" by Hanna Halperin-Goldstein), another historic-based fictional tale that tells the story of the Shoshoni woman's travels with her husband, an interpreter for the Lewis and Clark expedition. It is a big book, but well worth the story.

Check out this site with 19th century photos of Shoshonis and exerpts from the Lewis & Clark journals of their expedition that explain how Sacagawea went From Captive To Indian Interpreter

No apologies necessary though...really.

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!



[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 08-31-2001).]

Originally posted by Grand-Ranger: Beside, if the english didnt do what they did then we probley wouldnt have become "The land of oppirtunity" and the must rishest and powerful country that we have become.

Key word~"Richest" Could we be the most powerful if we were among the poorest? not likely.

Let's not fight people! We are all friends here!


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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!