Religion

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by B_part: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Seems rather lopsided and insulting to me, but hey, thats just my opinion. I don't feel like starting a Jihad over it.

He's right: I generally agree about what you say, but remember that there are many who are deeply religious and your text has a generally "too strong" tone which might offend someone.[/QUOTE]And here comes one now. [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img] Looks like it's time for a some good ole' fashinoned Southern Baptist Bible Thumping!!!

Ahhh...just kidding with ya, Callum.

I do have a question for you, though. Is your purpose in this thread to simply ask for an evaluation (and addition to) the subject matter of your speech - or do you wish to actually discuss the criticisims of Christianity you have with an opposing viewpoint?

If you just want an evaluation of your speech, I would say you have done a sufficient job of presenting your viewpoint and supporting arguments.

If you want to actuall discuss these various points, I'll be happy to do so. I can offer a counterargument to the vast majority of issues you raised (mainly because it's the same ones I hear over and over). But I will leave that decision up to you. I won't "hijack" your thread by starting a discussion you don't wish to have.

In either case, I wish you good luck on your speech. Let us know what the class (and especially the teacher) think of it.

[khazadman]

Callum, you aren't saying that atheists don't kills large numbers of people as well? Conservative estimates of the numbers of people who died at the hands of communists in the last century are at least 100,000,000.

[ 11-26-2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: khazadman ]

[Azred]

Although individuals may not believe any religion or observe any religious practices, societies will have religion. Even the most "primitive" groups of people have always developed a system of religious beliefs. It seems to be something that is built into the human brain.

If there were no religion, it would soon be invented.

Would the world be a better place without religion? No. Despite the atrocities committed in the name of religion, there are many great works of art, literature, architecture, etc. that were created because of religion and people expressing their faith. The world would be a very bland place without religion.

Originally posted by khazadman: Callum, you aren't saying that atheists don't kills large numbers of people as well? Conservative estimates of the numbers of people who died at the hands of communists in the last century are at least 100,000,000.

However Communism as in the Soviet Union WAS a religion.
Lenin was God, and Stalin the high priest.

Originally posted by Azred: Although individuals may not believe any religion or observe any religious practices, societies will have religion. Even the most "primitive" groups of people have always developed a system of religious beliefs. It seems to be something that is built into the human brain. If there were no religion, it would soon be invented. Would the world be a better place without religion? No. Despite the atrocities committed in the name of religion, there are many great works of art, literature, architecture, etc. that were created because of religion and people expressing their faith. The world would be a very bland place without religion.

Many of these great works of art & literature where created during the renascence and after when the power of religion and it’s repressive strangle hold on temporal power was beginning to wane.

It’s only the increasing secularisation of society, that made the modern world possible.

Did you know for example that the puritans tried to BAN Shakespeare’s plays from being shown because they thought it sinful?
There is no doubt that religion has inspired much,
But it has also lead to censorship and repression of art, for example under Islam I believe, makleing images of the human body is/was considered bad and not done,
Now if that’s not religion limiting art, I don’t know what is.
But then again, Freedom of art and speech etc, is relatively recent concept, only really made possible by the lessening of the power of religion.

But as regards to religion not existing making the world a better place, you can’t really say that, It’s been an incredibly important part behind humanity and our development. takeing on a life of it’s own to a certain extent.
Much of organised Religion in the end served as a chariot most of time for greed, avarice, spite, cruelty and every other base thing which we can summon.
Religion’s most major use, as for example with Buddhism and the yamoto in early Japan, is to provide a unifying ideology and to cement the power’s of the ruling classes.
And every ruling class I can think of off hand, gave it’s self the “divine Right” of rule.

I doubt if the world would be better off without religion, It's a (or been used for) manifestation of the bestial desires and actions within us all.

[ 11-26-2002, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Eisenschwarz ]

[The Lilarcor]

I just have something to say;
sure religion causes problems, as in when the greeks were killing the christian, the crusades and stuff like that including Bin Ladens excuse that we are evil pageans... but it also influences art and occassionally for the country to do good.
just like any other thing, its good until someone makes it bad.

[The Hierophant]

One thing that does weaken your argument is that you pretty much count the entire 'side' of religion in this debate on purely Christian terms. If I were on the opposite team (ie: The negative) I would use this against you and state that many religions do not revolve around the threat of damnation and/or their own self-glorification through cathedrals/mosques etc.

Also, Socrates was no atheist! He was a devoutly religious person, questioning the status quo of Athenian society in order to better understand the relationship between god and man. For that he was executed (in which case you could say that closed-minded authoritarian adherance to religious tenets is the real enemy, not religion itself. This will be hard for your opponents to refute).

In order to produce a really rock-solid speech and line of argument try to anticipate what your enemies...uh, I mean opponents, will say in order to refute your statements. Thus, include within your speech lines of argument which cater for these anticipated criticisms and refute your opponents arguments before they are even offered to the audience.

You've got some good info to work with there. You'll just have to burn the midnight oil to churn out a deliverable product [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[chrisofthedale]

I am religious myself but religion has created hate and mallice for other religions.(did i use mallice!!!)

[Paladin2000]

Callum Kerr, it seems to me that your argument is one sided. You only criticise Christians and the Catholic. What about Buddhist, Islam, Hindu and the other religion?

To have religion is a good thing; as long as your religion does not condone evil deed. But to be fanatic about it is not a good thing. Go to war over religion differences is (IMHO) one of the most stupid thing to do.

[Callum Kerr]

Yeah, some of you seem to be critical of the actual points and some of you seem to be critical of the way of arguing

First, I do not mean to offend anyone... I didn't choose the topic

Second, in my class (or school even) nobody really cares about other people's religions or views... or religion itself all THAT much...

Third, I was actually looking for someone to write me a speech... so much for religious charity j/k

Fourth, I conveniently "forgot to print it out as I was up so late last night doing it..." so I got off with a "you let ur team down