The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

[Melusine]

Originally posted by onthepequod: Thank you for making this point Melusine (although I don't think I understand your point about their disobedience). It was original sin! They weren't tricked. They only had one rule to obey. Oh and BTW, it was obviously completely Eve's fault. Just kidding. Adam only had himself to blame and was cowardly in his attempt to impute Eve for his shortcomings.

Sorry if I was unclear. What I meant by original sin is the belief in the inherent evilness of woman. I think I translated the term wrongly, what I meant was that people believed that all women were evil in principle because Eve was.


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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH
and the HADB &
Sultry Elflet

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[onthepequod]

Originally posted by Yorick: I think they gained the knowledge, not from the fruit itself, but from the action. He could have called anything the "object" or "action" of knowledge of good and evil. It was in sinning that they gained the concept of sin: the negative - and obedience: the positive. Prior to that they just were. I think the fall was part of the plan. If Adam hadn't someone else would have. By having the fall we needed forgiveness. In Gods forgiveness and sacrifice we see love. More than if we hadn't fallen.

While I think we are relatively alligned Thoelogically I would have to disagree with you here. IMHO it was through the command "not to eat" that the concept of sin was introduced to Adam and Eve and through the eating that sin nature was introduced to mankind (humankind if you prefer) as a product of the fall. However, these are just minor points.

BTW, good point in respect to the slavery post. I would love to add my two cents but Melusine is right, we should stay on topic. Dang!


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[This message has been edited by onthepequod (edited 09-08-2001).]

[onthepequod]

Originally posted by Melusine: Sorry if I was unclear. What I meant by original sin is the belief in the inherent evilness of woman. I think I translated the term wrongly, what I meant was that people believed that all women were evil in principle because Eve was.

I have heard this mentioned in jest but never as anything actually subscribed to. It's too bad that some out there actually would put merit in this type of arguement. My theological view credits Adam with the fall of man not eve.

[Melusine]

Well I'm not saying that anybody in their right minds should believe that, or that it's a very common belief, but yes, it does occur in scholarly / theological debates. Sometimes I think they don't even realise they're saying it...but I've heard it when in a discussion at university, even from the mouths of professors

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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH
and the HADB &
Sultry Elflet

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[onthepequod]

Originally posted by Melusine: Well I'm not saying that anybody in their right minds should believe that, or that it's a very common belief, but yes, it does occur in scholarly / theological debates. Sometimes I think they don't even realise they're saying it...but I've heard it when in a discussion at university, even from the mouths of professors

Sorry if I sounded agressive in my previous statement. It was not my intent to infer that you meant people should or commonly hold that belief.


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[Melusine]

Originally posted by onthepequod: Sorry if I sounded agressive in my previous statement. It was not my intent to infer that you meant people should or commonly hold that belief.

No, you weren't aggressive! Not at all!
I was agreeing with you that it's hard to believe there are people who believe in woman being the principle of evil made flesh but I was also pointing out that while most don't, they still do, unconsciously, when it comes to explaining the story in Genesis.




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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH
and the HADB &
Sultry Elflet

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[Fljotsdale]

Hm. Just read through the thread. Very interesting! I'll hang fire here for a bit, 'cos I'm always butting in on religious stuff! But I'll be back!

*thinks: will they see that as a threat or a promise? *

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[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Blade: But what are thoes consecpts John D Harris??

The concept is that God created everything, I don't know how but He did.
Even now with all of "Our" great computing power, and quantium phsyists their theories can't get any farther back than to 1 to the -47 power of a second after the big bang. We have to remember that God is speaking to a bunch of sheep & goat herders that have barely crawled out of the stone age. How in the world are they going to understand anything about the quantium mechanics of creating a universe? Is it even nessesary for them to know, or were there other things more important to their survival, and His plan.



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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[Larry_OHF]

Some of you have stated that Eve was to blame or Adam was to blame.
In their complete innocence, neither one can be blamed.
What is innocence?
When I look at my one year old...I see innocence.
If she were to grab a table, knock it over, and brake a vase that was upon it, would I punish her?
No.
She did not know what would be the outcome of her attempt at exploration.
So you ask, why did God throw them out of the Garden?
Because they were in the presence of God in the garden, and even though they were tricked by Satan...they were now counted as unclean, so they could no more enjoy the communion with God (ie. live in his presence.)
But God promised them that if they were to faithfully live out thier lives, knowing good from evil, and always, faithfully doing that which was right...they could return to his presence in due time. They of course, realized that God would not lie to them, so they realized that it was better to pass through sorrow, that they might enjoy the blessings of their acts of faith.

Now, yes Eve was the first to partake. If Adam would not have followed suit...then we would not be here right now, trying to figure all this out. If he would have rejected Eve's offer to partake of knowledge, she would have been cast out alone, and Adam would have been a lone man in the Garden of Eden. That would have separtated the two. God intended for them to be together.
I am quoting what i have read in many books and studies. If anyone wans me to find the exact literature in order that I may clarify my own weak attempt at explaining what I have been taught, I will.


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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
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Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[250]

I am not christian, and I know little

why is there a God? why does he create the world? why does he care? he creates human just so that humans can suffer, moan, progress and accept his love? why does he care? If he is so mighty, surely there is no reason for him to create us? and why and what does it mean that he loves us? we could never existed, and it wouldn't matter to anyone because he is the God

right? anyone explain this to me? Yorick? Larry?

[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 09-08-2001).]