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Old 01-07-2005, 04:37 AM   #1
Kakero
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: March 24, 2002
Posts: 10,215
This thing has be plaguing me since I first played this game. It was said that once you taken the oath and have the sword in your pocession you cannot just simply use it like any other sword or else you'll be struck by " the wrath of mavin sword ". It was said that D'soto was struck by this when he was near shurugeon castle. Is this for real or just a myth to add to the mystery of the Mavin Sword? Can I use this sword to attack every monster that appear?

As you can see the moment I got this sword I kept this in my inventory for fear of the wrath.
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:58 AM   #2
bsftcs
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You can attack everybody using the mavin - including friendly NPCs. Whatever was planned in connection with enforcing the oath was never included in the final game as it was released.
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:46 AM   #3
Wyvern
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Somewhere within the files that load when you load the game on your machine is one that states "Your character is consummed by the wrath of the Mavin" (or something close to that). If it were not for that file, you could argue that it was just a myth but it seems clear that originally they had intented to have players keep their oath.

Omitting this from the game has added a lot to the flexibility of the game, allowing players to play good or evil as they choose so it can be argued that it was a good move to leave it out of the game as released.



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Old 01-07-2005, 11:46 AM   #4
Radek
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I don't think it's good, Wyvern. IMO, a good game should not allow you an evil path at all. Note that being good does not mean being angelous. But it should mean that you won't do things, which are in complete contradiction with base morale criteria.
You can play an assassin, who will use his martial skills for killing monsters and not for killing innocent bystanders only because they are here. You can become a lich, who will be a powerful spellcaster but who will not eradicate a town by a disease.

Note all the mentors around. When they lecture us in the aggresivity of the society, they always mention computer games. They are wrong of course because the main source of aggresivity comes from elsewhere but they are right partially because the "evil games" or a possibility to follow an evil path in a game can help lowering self control of children.
As long as evil paths are possible, the mentors cannot be stopped. I don't like the mentors at all because they are lying and they know that. The only way of fighting them is taking off their "argument" and removing evil deeds from games.
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:48 PM   #5
Mr Creosote
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Join Date: February 14, 2002
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But why would you WANT to equip and use the Mavin? Its a pretty average weapon.
I was SO dissapointed first time I played the game, after all the in-game hype about the power of the sword, then when I got it, and didn't even use it because of its lack of power.
I dont even use it to kill Cet.
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Old 01-07-2005, 08:16 PM   #6
Kakero
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Join Date: March 24, 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by bsftcs:
You can attack everybody using the mavin - including friendly NPCs. Whatever was planned in connection with enforcing the oath was never included in the final game as it was released.
The game is unfinished? but I read somewhere that the game took several years to make. Apart from the lack of official patch . In the game there was nothing to suggest that this game is an unfinished product ( minus the bugs of course ).

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Creosote:
[QB]But why would you WANT to equip and use the Mavin? Its a pretty average weapon.[QB]
If I'm not mistaken the ' unblacken ' mavin sword already does good damage. IIRC.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:39 PM   #7
Bungleau
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Join Date: October 29, 2001
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Sadly, Radek, removing the option of playing evil in games won't cut it. People will find ways to do it anyway.

I believe the best defense against those kinds of people is to hit them with the truth: have they ever played it? If they haven't, then they're really not in a position to comment about it, are they? I believe that very, very few of the folks against gaming, violence in gaming, and the like are actually familiar with it.

We had a similar circumstance out here with the Harry Potter books. Numerous people were calling for them to be banned because of all the evil things they did and addressed. One of my favorite quotes, from a bookstore manager: "I pulled it from my shelves, and this woman came up and said she was so *grateful*". The bookstore manager had never read it, and neither had the woman who was "grateful".

That's about the worst scenario I can imagine for a lot of things. In fact, it reminds me of another book that should be banned. It contains stories of murder, rape, incest, slavery, conspiracy to murder, and mass killings, among other things. And children often will read this with little or no adult supervision! Imagine what they might do, reading about all these things!

Of course, that book is the Bible. That statement leads to sputtering and "it's not the same". I hold that if you don't read it yourself, you're trusting someone else to be right and allowing them to run your life for you. I've found that most people, me included, make mistakes more often than not. And I've found few people who can effectively manage one life, let alone adding the task of managing mine into it.

I think the important thing is that there be consequences to your actions. The M&M series did this for a while... townspeople turned against you if you slew one, kings threw you in jail if your reputation was bad... unfortunately, W&W was rushed to market because they were running out of funds (as I understand it), so some of the wrath of the mavin stuff wasn't completed.

I'll make a deal: when W&W becomes available to update and rerelease, let's all put our heads together and add in the things that are missing, shall we? And I'm serious about this, folks [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 01-08-2005, 07:44 AM   #8
jsalsb
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Violent games don't cause violent tendencies in children, neither does violence in books, tv, movies, etc. Lack of parenting does these things. The world is full of violence, which children - and all of us - must confront and make sense of. Being shielded from it doesn't make them less violent, just less prepared to cope with it when they do, inevitably, have deal with it. Stopping a child from reading Harry Potter, or the Bible, or seeing movies or cartoons where people get hurt or killed, doesn't lead to violent tendencies. It's when parents allow this exposure, then don't discuss it or guide children through it that the problems can arise.

And thus, exposure with guidance can, arguably, lead to greater self-control, not less. Don't stop your children from doing these things, just do it with them!

[ 01-08-2005, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: jsalsb ]
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Old 01-08-2005, 01:02 PM   #9
Wyvern
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Radek - I don't like the evil path, I've never played it. When I accidentally killed the sphynx, I reloaded my game. Same thing when I did in the Leprechaun. I prefer to play a good path but, whether I like it or not, there are players who like to be able to do any old thing they want within a game. W&W, as released, does allow them that freedom. (shrug) Unfortunately they encouraged players to take the evil route by assigning massive amounts of experience for killing a good NPC such as Oakenmir. I don't like that at all but there are lots of players who think that's great.

Kakero - The game was not released as originally planned. They were running low on development funds and had to omit things that were to have been in the game - such as having to live up to your oath and being consumed by the wrath of the Mavin if you did not. I would have liked to have seen at least that included in what they did release but it really came down to time and money. I think they did a good job considering the circumstances.

I believe that the Valkyrie and Zenmaster classes were going to come into play earlier in the game (as originally designed). I think we would have had a lot more to do in the whole game as well - but that's speculation on my part.

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Old 01-09-2005, 05:46 AM   #10
Mr Creosote
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While W&W is a game worth replaying as many of us have done more than once! there really isn't anything like ones forst run through. In that sense I was sorely dissapointed that Valk and ZenM were effectively not usable within the first run through. And replaying with the same chars is somewhat pointless as they are just too powerful.
Mind you, Assassin was pretty cool.
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