Political Science

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by skywalker: And BTW, LOA! If America screws up, I sure as hell won't be sweeping it out of sight. If America get's it right I'll pat her on the back. I've been finding very little to crow about that the Bush people have done. We are losing the War on Terrorism because everyone in the big cities of America are scared sh*tless about what might happen tomorrow. That's the name of the game...FEAR... and AL Queda is playing us like a well worn fiddle. No I will not shut up. And if you try to make me, I'll just keep on going. So save you profanity for someone who gives a rats@$$. And have a little respect for some of the other people here that have to read your garbage. Mark

European sentiment in regard to America was actually pretty good in the general populatoin til Bush junior came on the scene. Certainly we had our problems and disagreements, and the left wing were always pretty cynical, but yer average man and woman on the street were relatively well disposed, I'd say.

Things have changed a lot over the past year or so. America has walked away from anything that smacks of a global community, whilst reserving the right to itself to do pretty much as it likes. You can't expect to keep your friends for ever that way. Even Tony Blair, who has been following Bush around like his best toy poodle, has finally had enough, both with regard to Bush's telling the Palestinians what to do in the leader stakes, and now with the ICC.

And this hard on the heels of walking out of a load of international agreements, massive protectionism after all the free trade guff (a total u-turn basically), and all the rest of it. It's all getting just a bit hard to work with. Europe and the UK don't know what to do. It's like having a rogue elephant trampling over the work of the past 10 years or so.

People are getting angrier and angrier, in Europe. Just ordinary people. Not left wing people. Just people. Even some of the more right wing politicians are starting to look askance. From our point of view, America looks like a big spoilt child that wants its own way all the time, but hasn't learned how to share, or do social interaction.

This certainly isn't a comment on the ordinary American people, but on the current government, and those parts of corporate America that hand in bloody glove with it.

This really isn't meant as a slag off. I just thought, given the discussion so far, that it might be useful to say a few words about sentiment in Europe.

[skywalker]

I mostly "whine" about things I am familiar with. I "whine" about the stupid things that are done in the name of America, because it pains me to see this stuff done and all the "followers" nod their heads and say "That's right, we're the best, don't mess with us or we'll bust you up!"

You call it whining, I call discussion. It's great to get a wide variety of views on this stuff, not just redneck ramblings (present company not inferred). You have your opinion and that's fine, but I'm not backing off. It is my right. If Ziroc wants me to stop, fine. He can tell me what to do here.

I really don't care whether you think I'm whining or not. I don't post with you in mind. Any chance I get to put the screws to Bush I take without hesitation.

So don't waste your time advising me...unless that's what you like to do.

Mark

[Lord of Alcohol]

Actually Mark I do kind of enjoy needling you

[caleb]

Yes Skywalker the U.S. is so horrible that you have moved far, far away to.....Plainfield,VT,USA riiiiiiight.

[ 07-03-2002, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: caleb ]

[K T Ong]

Why is it so difficult for America to learn to get along with others? China could do it -- the number of times China has been really difficult with her neighbors in the past 5,000 years can be numbered using the fingers of one hand. Why not America?

[skywalker]

Originally posted by caleb: Yes Skywalker the U.S. is so horrible that you have moved far, far away to.....Plainfield,VT,USA riiiiiiight.

Loving America and loving what the people in power do are two very different things, Caleb.

Mark

[Chewbacca]

Nice tune. [img]smile.gif[/img] Never let anyone tell you what you can speak freely about! Imagine if we did not speak out or even rise up. The Civil Rights movement, Women's Sufferage and voting rights, The end of slavery even...All this because citizens spoke up and joined together around. Power to the people is American!

Its a beautiful thing to have the freedom to hold your leaders accountable and change your goverment (how ever long it takes!).

Its a great notion that citizens can exchange ideas and information, as well as gather to apply information with the aim of achieving change.

I'm quite happy to discuss policy and politics here in accordance with my rights as an American. If Ziroc calls for a moritorium like with the religion thang, well its his house so I'll follow the rules if it will keep the place happy.

As I recall some nations strictly censor the press, as well as destroy grass-roots efforts for democracy and change into better goverment. Some goverments would propose a ban on chat-rooms and instant messengers in order to end citizen's free flow of communication that would include critism of thier goverment and the effort to make change.

Fortunately here we can speak out as well as act to make our nation and our world a better place. No one can take that away from an American like me unless they take my last breath away too.

Happy Independence Day! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Fortunately here we can speak out as well as act to make our nation and our world a better place. No one can take that away from an American like me unless they take my last breath away too. Happy Independence Day! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Um, Western Europe is generally thought to be pretty free and easy as far as personal expression and personal freedom goes. It's not confined to the US, y'know... [img]smile.gif[/img]

[skywalker]

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: LOL if you think I follow any political affiliation your sadly mistaken. I actually would have thought you had known that by now, perhaps you havent picked up on my irreverence to most subjects. I assume your not a "slow learner"? Now lets get to your whining. For as long as I can remember your constantly wailing about what the US has done. It seems to me there are many more subjects that you have failed to whine about. I'd be happy to give you some ideas- 1) whine about war in Africa, there more than enough to go around. And FAR more dead than in Afghanistan 2)whine about the so-called "communist" guerillas in Columbia that terrorize the country, kidnapping at will and selling cocaine to the entire world 3)whine about the recent altercation on the seas between North and South Korea 4)whine about the overt abuse of steroids in major league baseball 5)quit whining-its unbecoming

I suppose threads discussing "What's the longest booger you pulled out of nose" are much more important than the threads I have been posting.

Mark

[Lord of Alcohol]

You actually think your threads are important? LOL And just out of curiousity,what IS the largest booger you have ever pulled from your nose? And pics to back up your claim please!