LittleBigHorn

AzureWolf · 08-30-2001, 12:29 AM

I have just read a book called "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee" by Dee Brown, and it gave me another view point on what happened to the indian society. There was the whole history of indians in there, from between 1860 and 1890. Now there were many things in there i found very sad as it describes a heritage stolen, but I wont go into that now. It is a book I would wholely recommend to anyone, whether you are american or not.
But one thing that really bugged me about what I read was about the battle of Little Bighorn. I had always heard this all through my life celebrated as the biggest indian victory against the white man ever. But I had never actually read anything about it, until now.
For those that dont know I will give the details of the battle in a very brief statement.
Gold diggers who had ventured into the Black Hills on the last free indian land had discovered gold. After many diplomatic meetings the envoys of the United States failed to convince the indians of selling their land. This created a stir back in Washington where the President was forced into declaring that the Sioux and Cheyenne should be moved to reservations and the black hills opened for gold mining. Two generals, general Crook and general Terry were ordered to begin military operations around where crazy horse and his allies frequented.
Now an advance column of General Crook led by Colonel Reynolds attacked a sleeping camp of Northen Cheyenne and Oglala Sioux, although the indian warriors managed to get most of the women and children out in time. This was called "the attack on Crazy Horses village". This was a declaration of war and the indians again went to war on the white man. When Crook advanced on the Rosebud Crazy Horses Sioux and the Cheyennes fought and routed his forces, with unorthodox tactics Crazy Horse had introduced. Crook retreated to wait for reinforcements. Now "Long Hair" Custer had ridden to the rosebud with his forces and attacked Sitting Bulls Hunkpapa village. The other tribes there banded together and fought back.
Sitting Bulls war chief Gall, turned Major Renos flank and forced them to retreat so letting hundreds of warriors make a frontal attack on Custer. Crazy horses sioux and the Cheyenne attacked the flank and rear. They decimated custers forces and won the day. Back in Washington this was called a massacre by public speakers and newspapers and a anti indian sentiment was stirred up.
The Government gave orders to occupy the black hills and powder country indian territory citing that the indians had broken the treaty by attacking the US soilders.

Now this is all well and good i am not arguing here what happened in the battle. But the thing that really annoys me is that the US called this a massacre and saying the indians had scored a huge vicotry when in reality the indians had protected themselves and they had only one a minor battle in a war which they could not win. Now i know this was many years ago now but the battle of Little Bighorn is still called an indian victory whereas IMO it was the end of the war for them.

Opinions anyone?

------------------

"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

Liliara · 08-30-2001, 12:36 AM

Ahhh yes....
How dare the natives think they had a right to the land they had roamed and respected for so long before the settlers got here......

------------------

AzureWolf · 08-30-2001, 05:20 AM

Look at the cool smiley

===========>

------------------

"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

08-30-2001, 05:23 AM

Americans tend to think themselfs more important as other people
also illustated in the Vietnam war what the americans called a huge victory for the vietnamese and they were complaining how many men the american had lost
a total of 60000 men...
compared to 2,500000 vietnamese...

------------------

OMG I have no Arms
Wait I don't have a body either

Epona · 08-30-2001, 06:19 AM

Ah, a truly great book that should be read by everyone!
'Massacre' is an emotive word often misused to make a political point - history is written by the victors.

------------------

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas

AzureWolf · 08-30-2001, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Epona:
Ah, a truly great book that should be read by everyone!
'Massacre' is an emotive word often misused to make a political point - history is written by the victors.

I take it youve read the book then?
The publication I read was from 1972 I dont know when they republished it to but it is one of the best pieces of work I have ever read.

------------------

"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

AzureWolf · 08-30-2001, 08:18 AM

A bump since people seem to be replying to the debating threads.

------------------

"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

AzureWolf · 08-30-2001, 08:18 PM

Bump

------------------

"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

Grand-Ranger · 08-30-2001, 09:22 PM

Well, gee you know I feel sorry for the indains and all, but as the old saying gose only the srong survive.

Call me cruel and all but its true. How come no one ever makes a big deal about the jews?

------------------

So if in the forest look behind you, because that where the ranger is going to be

The ranger looked at the place out side of the elven town near the river, he looked near the rocks, then they showed the way to....

Grand-Jester of Laghing Hyenas

AzureWolf · 08-31-2001, 08:35 AM

Only the strong survive?
The Indians were strong. They were simply outnumbered and out gunned. The were looked on as barbaric and savage by white men simply because they lived in harmony with nature rather than defiling it. How could they stand in the face of men who would destroy the land that supported them? They are not strong simply because they had not invented guns?

------------------

"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-30-2001, 12:29 AM	#1
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	I have just read a book called "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee" by Dee Brown, and it gave me another view point on what happened to the indian society. There was the whole history of indians in there, from between 1860 and 1890. Now there were many things in there i found very sad as it describes a heritage stolen, but I wont go into that now. It is a book I would wholely recommend to anyone, whether you are american or not. But one thing that really bugged me about what I read was about the battle of Little Bighorn. I had always heard this all through my life celebrated as the biggest indian victory against the white man ever. But I had never actually read anything about it, until now. For those that dont know I will give the details of the battle in a very brief statement. Gold diggers who had ventured into the Black Hills on the last free indian land had discovered gold. After many diplomatic meetings the envoys of the United States failed to convince the indians of selling their land. This created a stir back in Washington where the President was forced into declaring that the Sioux and Cheyenne should be moved to reservations and the black hills opened for gold mining. Two generals, general Crook and general Terry were ordered to begin military operations around where crazy horse and his allies frequented. Now an advance column of General Crook led by Colonel Reynolds attacked a sleeping camp of Northen Cheyenne and Oglala Sioux, although the indian warriors managed to get most of the women and children out in time. This was called "the attack on Crazy Horses village". This was a declaration of war and the indians again went to war on the white man. When Crook advanced on the Rosebud Crazy Horses Sioux and the Cheyennes fought and routed his forces, with unorthodox tactics Crazy Horse had introduced. Crook retreated to wait for reinforcements. Now "Long Hair" Custer had ridden to the rosebud with his forces and attacked Sitting Bulls Hunkpapa village. The other tribes there banded together and fought back. Sitting Bulls war chief Gall, turned Major Renos flank and forced them to retreat so letting hundreds of warriors make a frontal attack on Custer. Crazy horses sioux and the Cheyenne attacked the flank and rear. They decimated custers forces and won the day. Back in Washington this was called a massacre by public speakers and newspapers and a anti indian sentiment was stirred up. The Government gave orders to occupy the black hills and powder country indian territory citing that the indians had broken the treaty by attacking the US soilders. Now this is all well and good i am not arguing here what happened in the battle. But the thing that really annoys me is that the US called this a massacre and saying the indians had scored a huge vicotry when in reality the indians had protected themselves and they had only one a minor battle in a war which they could not win. Now i know this was many years ago now but the battle of Little Bighorn is still called an indian victory whereas IMO it was the end of the war for them. Opinions anyone? ------------------ "I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

08-30-2001, 12:36 AM	#2
Liliara Red Wizard of Thay Join Date: August 17, 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 874	Ahhh yes.... How dare the natives think they had a right to the land they had roamed and respected for so long before the settlers got here...... ------------------

08-30-2001, 05:20 AM	#3
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	Look at the cool smiley ===========> ------------------ "I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

08-30-2001, 05:23 AM	#4
Rikard Guest Posts: n/a	Americans tend to think themselfs more important as other people also illustated in the Vietnam war what the americans called a huge victory for the vietnamese and they were complaining how many men the american had lost a total of 60000 men... compared to 2,500000 vietnamese... ------------------ OMG I have no Arms Wait I don't have a body either

08-30-2001, 06:19 AM	#5
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 53 Posts: 5,164	Ah, a truly great book that should be read by everyone! 'Massacre' is an emotive word often misused to make a political point - history is written by the victors. ------------------ Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. Epona of The Laughing Hyenas

08-30-2001, 08:18 AM	#7
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	A bump since people seem to be replying to the debating threads. ------------------ "I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

08-30-2001, 08:18 PM	#8
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	Bump ------------------ "I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

08-30-2001, 09:22 PM	#9
Grand-Ranger Galvatron Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Everywhere I wanna go its already where I am,cause I am already there Posts: 2,130	Well, gee you know I feel sorry for the indains and all, but as the old saying gose only the srong survive. Call me cruel and all but its true. How come no one ever makes a big deal about the jews? ------------------ So if in the forest look behind you, because that where the ranger is going to be The ranger looked at the place out side of the elven town near the river, he looked near the rocks, then they showed the way to.... Grand-Jester of Laghing Hyenas

08-31-2001, 08:35 AM	#10
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	Only the strong survive? The Indians were strong. They were simply outnumbered and out gunned. The were looked on as barbaric and savage by white men simply because they lived in harmony with nature rather than defiling it. How could they stand in the face of men who would destroy the land that supported them? They are not strong simply because they had not invented guns? ------------------ "I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)