Todays Genders in Society

[Epona]

quote:

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Originally posted by Vassili_Zaitsev:
CAPCOM ALERT CAPCOM ALERT!!! W00000000000000000000000 CAPCOM ALERT CAPCOM ALERT

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WHAT?????

[Vassili_Zaitsev]

Sorry, but this is gonna turn into one i bet. Cap-Com debates happen to much at the Day of defeat message boards. www.dayofdefeatmod.com Next you'll hear people saying someting about Capitalists and then teh commies will come to join in and argue over it etc etc etc. You the point.

[Kaz]

I may not have a degree in psychology or ANYTHING pertaining to this, but I'll put my [img]graemlins/twocents.gif[/img] in as well.
I agree that, quite probably, most of these male-female "roles" are because of social conditioning - not only by our parents, but also in school, in the media, etc. Even today, there is often the "ideal" family - dad works, mom stays at home, cooks, cleans, keeps house, watches the kids. In RL as well as in many movies and so. And - have you noticed, whenever one of the female characters has a job, it's always a low-rank one? Why is it that nurses and secretaries are always female, and doctors and the people who HAVE secretaries always male? Doesn't this convey the impression that women are supposed to marry and keep house or get some low-paying job and leave the top positions to the men? You may put this down to differences between men and women, but I think that if we managed to really ELIMINATE all these gender-specific things in the media, at home, etc., we wouldn't see as much of the male domination in certain areas.

[Barry the Sprout]

quote:

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Originally posted by Vassili_Zaitsev:
Sorry, but this is gonna turn into one i bet. Cap-Com debates happen to much at the Day of defeat message boards. www.dayofdefeatmod.com Next you'll hear people saying someting about Capitalists and then teh commies will come to join in and argue over it etc etc etc. You the point.

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Too late. Hi, I am your friendly neighbourhood communist. I hope you don't have a problem with me expressing my views, I try not to flame people in doing so. And we have already had some "Cap-Com" debates on the war forum. Now they have spilled back into GD it would seem. Sorry if it bothers you, if you ever have a problem with what I say please don't hesitate to PM me.

[John D Harris]

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Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:


(When you address me like that, I feel sooooooo old! [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Oh, did I forget to mention that *I* also reserve the right to pass on anything I do not wish to participate in at the moment? I simply claim that it's a 'guy chore' and the issue is settled.

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Sorry Miss Garnet FalconDance Ma'am, But my Mama taught me to always address a lady as Miss ________ Ma'am. Being a good Southern Gentleman I try to do what my Mama taught me. (cause if'n I don't "I'm not to big to get a whoopping)

I knew it! Back when I was in Grade school (slightly after the last Ice age) in 5th grade they seperated the boys and girls for a couple of hours. Us boys got to go outside and have resess, little did we know that inside they were passing out to the girls hand books on how to handle us. I wish we had a handbook, but it probibly wouldn't do us any good, cause I bet it would say that you'll let us know what we need to know.

[Durwyn]

From my point of view, the men were the rules not long ago, perhaps 40 years or so, men were really at it. At least in US, but now women with their whole new look of the so many make ups and just femanine touches have took over men and got all of us whipped... You guys should really see the statistics of todays male reactions to a female [img]smile.gif[/img] , I have done that, and wow I swear the females got us all whipped lol [img]smile.gif[/img] .

It happens year by year, females gain more power in this world so to speak, they have almost came to an equal stand with the male, soon women will be in huge positions in goverement as they already are and who knows maybe even president. So really there is no way of telling, but in any case males are being whipped, and I have no problemo with it [img]smile.gif[/img] .

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:


LOL! I'm sorry, but you're doing it again: first, you tell me if I'd only taken psychology classes then we'd be able to talk, then you say that since I have, it's apparent I've discounted or forgotten 'em--even as you say you didn't mean to attack me. Magik, suffice to say, I was taught (and have since read) material which obviously differs from what you were taught; such things have been known to happen, without anybody losing credibility in the differences. On the matter of Nature vs Nurture, where gender is concerned, most of my profs and most of what I've read comes down solidly on the side of nurture where gender-specific behavior is shown in a cultural context. Now, again, I'm not talking about minor physical distinctions within the brain, or major differences within the body.

Second Paragraph, the physicly different ways in which males and females process information is either the cause of or the result of women processing and thinking about things in a different manner than men. But it comes down to the fact, that I can take you out side, walk down the street and show you a thousand examples of the differences between men and women and their though processes that are not caused by society but by them being different and society is the way it is because of those differences. I didnt memorize a long list of bibliographic information on text references on the subject, they are public and you could find them if you desire to do the research.

I'm not asking you for that; I'm not into playing with cheap debate tactics. I just want to know what are some of the instances of gender-specific behavior you refer to. So far, you've been general and sweeping in your statements. And I'd like to know just how "deep" these differences are that you notice. I have no way of quantifying what you're referring to. We could even be in agreement, depending upon the kind of behavior you mean. So why not provide a few examples?

Check out the results of the SAT tests, check out the results of Myers Brigs tests, look at the ASVAB test results.

And whites and orientals do differently from blacks on these tests. Does that prove that the races actually think differently? I would suggest it does not. It proves only that social conditioning leads to different ways of looking at things, and to the acquisition of different skills and levels of the same skills, in various societies.

Anyway I have tomorrow off so Im going out to play [img]smile.gif[/img] you all have a good weekend

You, too, whether you choose to post again on this subject, or not. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Well this may qualify as an attack but I checked with the Psychology Deptartment At UMBC (University Maryland Baltimore Campus) and according to the people who were present in the research lab, they agreed and I quote "Anyone who doesnt know that men and women process information in radicly different ways need to take a refresher course"

I then checked at Anne Arundel Community College Psychology students while I was there and they all, without exception all said it was common knowledge that men and women think differently,

Finaly I checked with someone I know very well who is in a Masters program at Jhons Hopkins here in Columbia MD and according to her, it is a well known fact, so apparently learning establishments here in central Maryland all seem to agree, I suppose we are just east coast bumpkins but I have enough info to astisfy myself that Im not crazy and that Im not the only person who "knows" that men and women are physicaly and mentally different.

Gender specific activity: Left to themselves with no supervision teenage males will on average get into more physical conflicts than women of the smae age. Men will participate in more displays of physical prowess in an attempt to dominate the other males, females have very different ways of establishing dominance.

This from a Highschool Teacher named Melissa that I know.

You are not going to give in and Im not going to concede so this I swear is my last reply to you on the subject.

quote:

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Originally posted by AzureWolf:


Not in modern day although some Indian reserves are still run by the women. But before the arrival of the Europeans a large amount of American Indian tribes were matriachal(sp?) in which the women controlled everything of import, land, property, leadership.

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Which Indian Reserves?? The only ones I have been to seemed to be run by the males, altho women did rule in the domestic arena. This includes a couple of gambling establishments in the midwest and an Eskimo vilage outside of Anchorage. so..Im basing the question on having only seen 3...oh wait I did stop at this oneplace in newhampshire..and a Guy was incharge there.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kaz:
I may not have a degree in psychology or ANYTHING pertaining to this, but I'll put my [img]graemlins/twocents.gif[/img] in as well.
I agree that, quite probably, most of these male-female "roles" are because of social conditioning - not only by our parents, but also in school, in the media, etc. Even today, there is often the "ideal" family - dad works, mom stays at home, cooks, cleans, keeps house, watches the kids. In RL as well as in many movies and so. And - have you noticed, whenever one of the female characters has a job, it's always a low-rank one? Why is it that nurses and secretaries are always female, and doctors and the people who HAVE secretaries always male? Doesn't this convey the impression that women are supposed to marry and keep house or get some low-paying job and leave the top positions to the men? You may put this down to differences between men and women, but I think that if we managed to really ELIMINATE all these gender-specific things in the media, at home, etc., we wouldn't see as much of the male domination in certain areas.

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Kaz, I dont know about anyone else here, but I am not arguing that there are roles for males and females, Im trying to get accross the point that men and women think differently than each other..and are desigend physicaly so that some tasks are more optimal for males and some tasks more optimal for female...cooking, cleaning, ironing do NOT qualify for the debate I am waging because they can be done by anyone.

[fable]

"Anyone who doesnt know that men and women process information in radicly different ways need to take a refresher course"

But Magik, again I have to say, I never disagreed with you on this. What I disagreed with was your very different conclusion that gender-specific behavior patterns were the result of nature, not nurture. This, and not the physical/mental differences, where we agree--is what I seek clarification upon. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Gender specific activity: Left to themselves with no supervision teenage males will on average get into more physical conflicts than women of the smae age. Men will participate in more displays of physical prowess in an attempt to dominate the other males, females have very different ways of establishing dominance.

So does this mean that the male kids have mental differences that drive them into physical conflict? Or does it mean that while girls playing in a sandbox are being told "Now, Jane, don't get dirty, and don't argue with Sally, be a proper young lady!" the boys are being ignored under the parental impression that bad temper and greed are "manly?"

My conclusion is that physical aggression is not a hardwired male trait. I have seen and interacted with families where the women were far more aggressive than the men; and vice versa. I have seen cultures where such aggression was frowned on in both sexes, and the boys and girls refrained from it equally. All this leads me currently to think, strictly from personal experience, that what we're taught is proper behavior as children in turn forms a considerable part (unless checked) of how we are going to behave when we mature.

But I'm open to the idea that nature could be involved in directing gender-specific behaviors. I just honestly haven't heard of any which can't be traced back to parents, peer groups, etc, having an effect on kids.

[ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: fable ]