No more Black Isle Studios....

[Nerull]

Originally posted by Sythe: Well let me be the first to say I disagree! It's true that quality of the game affects the sales and such and all that. I still think that Piracy is the bigger issue. Sometime ago Halo was released. Before it was released there were many ads that it's coming out for PC. And millions of gamers are going crazy over this. When the game comses out some gamers buy the game but many prefer to download it. For either two reasons 1) To save money and 2)They cannot afford it. It's true that gaming companies might lose some 150-300 dollars from ONE gamer. People we are talking millions here! Multiply 50 dollars by a million. I don't know how big but I know it's a large number. Piracy takes a huge bite out of the companies profits folks. And has any of you heard of warez sites? Huge pirating websites which sell games at a price lower at your local Gamestop. Those are my two cents.

Oh, I'm not saying that piracy is an issue. It is. However, I am stating that it is nowhere near the issue that they are making it out to be. As someone studying to be an accountant, I am just stating that the amount that would be considered a "loss" is what they lose from the sales figure due to the downloading, NOT the total price x quantity that was downloaded. If the person was never going to buy the game, no matter what, then that does not count as a loss. Copyright infringement, sure, but not a sales loss. Thus, when they tell you that "we lost X dollars due to piracy", they are actually going price x quantity. I am stating that this is not an accurate figure. If only 500,000 copies would have been sold in a market without piracy, but then with the piracy it sells only 300,000 copies, but another 400,000 are pirated, then the loss is 200,000 copies (500,000 - 300,000), not 400,000 copies. The extra 200,000 copies pirated were done by people that would not have bought the game to begin with (at least at the price it was being offered at), so whether piracy exists or not you would not have made the extra 200,000 in sales at that price. The reason is they go price x quantity when talking to the media is to inflate the loss figures for their own agenda, which is to eliminate something they see as a threat to the status quo, which is them on top. Any time major changes come to technology that affects an industry, there is always the threat that the players in that industry will not adapt quickly enough and thus fall out of that industry. That is a very real threat to the current game/music/movie industries, and rather than adapt they use their influence that they built up through the years to lash out at the forces of that change. The reason brick and mortar outlets are hurting right now is because of the move to downloading, NOT just piracy downloading, but all downloading. Why do you think Apple's music downloading site is booming? Because that is the move of the industry, towards a downloading environment (pay or not). It will do in most of the brick and mortar establishments eventually (some will remain, of course, but that depends on how quickly those establishments adapt to the new technology). The current players in the industries involved, especially the music and movie industries, did not adapt quickly to the changes, and thus are now fighting for their places in the industry. Change is extremely costly, especially when it comes to technology, so they would like nothing better than to limit downloading and get people back into the brick and mortar establishments. They attack piracy because it is the easy culprit, and it is illegal due to copyright infrigement. The reason they waited for ages (people were pirating songs for years before the RIAA took action) is to set up deals with sites like the Apple site. Thus, they are finally beginning to adapt, and are now trying to edge out all the competition that cropped up with the demand for downloaded music. It will start with piracy, and then move to price cutting wars against smaller download sites. The exact same tactic they used against the "mom and pop" record stores in the 1980s. However, until they can get themselves in a position to adapt to the changes, they will keep demonizing piracy (mostly to try to slow down the downloading demand until they can get themselves in position to capitalize on that demand).

I'm not saying this stuff as an opponent to the industries (even though I am). I'm looking at it from a business standpoint. Trust me, you would not believe the way figures are twisted around by businesses, political figures, and media to make a point. I have been privy to more than a few such instances in my previous work experiences. I'm just stating that the figures they are giving you for piracy losses are way overstated, because it serves their purposes to do so. That doesn't mean that they do not take piracy losses. They do. Just not as much as they are making it out to be.

[Jim]

It is clear Nerull, that you are in your element here [img]smile.gif[/img]

I feel that piracy is being slowly phased out anyway. Online gaming has exploded over the last couple of years, and the lack of a genuine CD key, or the owning one that is shared by 10,000's of others (say, aquired from Google groups), will not allow that played to connect to a server. This is certainly the case for Half Life and Half Life 2, which simply will not authenticate users when they try to connect to servers, because someone is already connected with that same CD Key. Tactics like this almost force users to go and purchase the game if they like it and want to play online.

Another important factor that publishing companies need to learn, is that having different release dates for a particular game all over the world is almost asking for piracy. If a game is released in the States a full month before say, Europe, then the people in Europe may have a temptation to "aquire" the game by other means. Having a uniform release all over the world may help to reduce this temptation.

[johnny]

Something good will come forth out of this, it always does. It's Bioware that fell, not the people behind it. Some of them will team up with other talented developers and come up with an unexpected brilliant game. If there were any plans for a BG3, it WILL come out sometime. The team behind it is dead, but not the plan itself.

An example is when the team behind Medal of Honor split up. Everyone in the FPS corner were convinced there wasn't gonna be a sequel. But other developers stepped in and came up with Spearhead and Breakthrough, and the soon to be released Rising Sun. The developers behind the original game went their own way and came up with Call of Duty, not the least of the WW2 shooters i'd say.

My guess is that there are some very talented developers, currently unemployed, who are eager to team up with a new fresh crew, and get to work on some other great CRPG.

The king is dead, long live the king.

[Xen]

Originally posted by johnny: Something good will come forth out of this, it always does. It's Bioware that fell, not the people behind it. Some of them will team up with other talented developers and come up with an unexpected brilliant game. If there were any plans for a BG3, it WILL come out sometime. The team behind it is dead, but not the plan itself.

I think not becuase IIRC Interplay and BIS argued becuase of the license.

[johnny]

Well, if they don't come to an agreement, neither one isn't gonna make any money. I'm sure noone can be THAT stupid.

[Xen]

Originally posted by johnny: Well, if they don't come to an agreement, neither one isn't gonna make any money. I'm sure noone can be THAT stupid.

The option of those two getting together again is pretty much equal to zero... I hope that will hapen tough

[Black Baron]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First 3do and now black isle? It is not happening! it is not!!!! whaaaaa...

[uss]

Originally posted by Sythe: Well let me be the first to say I disagree! It's true that quality of the game affects the sales and such and all that. I still think that Piracy is the bigger issue. Sometime ago Halo was released. Before it was released there were many ads that it's coming out for PC. And millions of gamers are going crazy over this. When the game comses out some gamers buy the game but many prefer to download it. For either two reasons 1) To save money and 2)They cannot afford it. It's true that gaming companies might lose some 150-300 dollars from ONE gamer. People we are talking millions here! Multiply 50 dollars by a million. I don't know how big but I know it's a large number. Piracy takes a huge bite out of the companies profits folks. And has any of you heard of warez sites? Huge pirating websites which sell games at a price lower at your local Gamestop. Those are my two cents.

50 X 1 000 000 = 50 000 000


In addition to what Nerull said, I wanted to say one point: It's possible for piracy to actually make some people buy games they they wouldn't have initially bought. People who play pirated games can also become fanatics and make fanpages and write reviews and stuff like that - People who buy games mostly buy a game only when they've heard great reviews about it.

I've also read that there are people, who download games to see how good they are, and if it *really* is good, they buy it.

Most companies receive enough money to get along fine as is, and don't game companies think about the worldwide fame of their games amongst gamers in general? This view might seem overly positive, but if a person downloads the game, it means that he has interest in it


Black Baron, 3DO's gone too!? Salutations to the most replayable game of all time, Heroes of Might and Magic III - A game I've not got tired of since 1997, I still play it Multi Player with my friends.

[ 12-12-2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: uss ]

[Tasslehoff Burrfoot]

[img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img] NOOOOO!!! [img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img]

kill'em kill the pirates [img]graemlins/blownup.gif[/img]


Looks like the other companies.. [img]graemlins/confused2.gif[/img] ...companies what companies???

[Kakero]

First 3do, then Black Isle, next...... ? * shudder *