Does ANYONE have trouble beating the last of the Five?

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Sir Goulum: quote: Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: quote: Originally posted by Sir Goulum: No, I meant *good* Bhall powers. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

+1 to Wisdom? [/QUOTE]Slayer? [/QUOTE]I still disagree... His life's calling is to stamp out the Bhaalspawn. He's a monk; they tend to not give up their life's callings.

[ 07-15-2005, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: Illumina Drathiran'ar ]

[GoblinZ]

Grrreat, now EVERYONE´S disagreeing. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[SixOfSpades]

What I find most ironic about Balthazar is that the most difficult part of my return to Amkethran is dealing with the stupid Mercenaries, Balthazar's a doddle compared to them. (There's dozens of them, you can't keep tabs on them all, and they all have really low THAC0, okay?) They're almost enough to make me take Balthazar seriously....if it wasn't for the fact that I have all the time in the world to Rest, Regenerate, etc., before I go to see the Man Himself.
So I pondered this setup:

"As soon as your conversation with Balthazar ends, all party members except the PC are teleported back down to the lowest level of the Great Hall, leaving the main character mano a mano against Balthazar, and perhaps his four flunkies. Meanwhile, Balthazar's other minions swarm in from the intermediate platforms--Monks on one side, Mercenaries on the other. They start out in 2 groups of 6, each group blocking the staircase on their side of the Hall (with the object being to prevent the PC from rejoining with the rest of the party), with 2 more Monks and 2 more Mercenaries being spawned each round. These minions will concentrate on clearing the lower level first, and then sweep upwards to help Balthazar."

But then I realized: As neat as Bhaal's essence might be, it can't give Balthazar the power to summon up an infinite supply of living human beings, all fanatical enough to throw themselves on the blades of their enemies on one man's say-so. Balthazar needs power in himself, not his Kleenex Brigade.

Possibilities (apart from the possibility of a one-on-one duel):
1. Fist of the Ram ability: Similar to the Ring of the Ram (except can be used multiple times per day, and only works within melee range), it punches right through most spell & combat protections and usually disrupts spellcasting. Coupled with Balthazar's partial immunity to Time Stop, this could even the odds against Wizards, particularly if he or one of his attendants has a Wand of Spell Striking.
2. Aura of Exhaustion: During the 4 rounds in which this ability lasts, anyone striking Balthazar with a melee weapon has a 25% chance of being Fatigued (which stacks). May be cast multiple times.
3. Standing Stone: Balthazar is Stoneskinned, and for 5 rounds gains -6 to AC and +35% Physical Resistances (stacks with Hardiness). His movement rate and Attacks per Round are reduced to 25% of their original amounts for the duration.
4. Folding Flower: Balthazar's Magic Resistance is set to 100% and Saving Throws are set to 1, for 5 rounds, and he also gains +35% Resistance to all forms of non-physical damage. During this period, his THAC0 takes a +20 penalty.
5. Multiple Me: Creates a Simulacrum of Balthazar, then both the copy and the original are Mirror Imaged (and possibly Misled). May be used only once.
6. Balthazar himself is permanently immune to all Traps.

[Link]

As stated in my previous post, I believe Balthazar to be a man who knows very well the danger that comes with his heritage. Why would he then allow himself to become powerful? Why would he want to gain all those powers when he's unsure whether or not he can control them?

Actually, am I the only one who thinks Balthazar is scared of his heritage?

[Jelboo]

Well said, Link. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Western Paladin]

Originally posted by Link: As stated in my previous post, I believe Balthazar to be a man who knows very well the danger that comes with his heritage. Why would he then allow himself to become powerful? Why would he want to gain all those powers when he's unsure whether or not he can control them? Actually, am I the only one who thinks Balthazar is scared of his heritage?

I'm afraid I disagree with you about Balthazar's being scared of his heritage. My impression of him was that he genuinely believed he was doing something right. As we learn from "The Transformation and the Dream" in Spellhold, your Bhaal powers can come out whether you like them to or not. Actually, some of the powers he uses may not come fro Bhaal at all - they may come from his monk training.

Originally posted by SixOfSpades 1. Fist of the Ram ability: Similar to the Ring of the Ram (except can be used multiple times per day, and only works within melee range), it punches right through most spell & combat protections and usually disrupts spellcasting. Coupled with Balthazar's partial immunity to Time Stop, this could even the odds against Wizards, particularly if he or one of his attendants has a Wand of Spell Striking. 2. Aura of Exhaustion: During the 4 rounds in which this ability lasts, anyone striking Balthazar with a melee weapon has a 25% chance of being Fatigued (which stacks). May be cast multiple times. 3. Standing Stone: Balthazar is Stoneskinned, and for 5 rounds gains -6 to AC and +35% Physical Resistances (stacks with Hardiness). His movement rate and Attacks per Round are reduced to 25% of their original amounts for the duration. 4. Folding Flower: Balthazar's Magic Resistance is set to 100% and Saving Throws are set to 1, for 5 rounds, and he also gains +35% Resistance to all forms of non-physical damage. During this period, his THAC0 takes a +20 penalty. 5. Multiple Me: Creates a Simulacrum of Balthazar, then both the copy and the original are Mirror Imaged (and possibly Misled). May be used only once. 6. Balthazar himself is permanently immune to all Traps.

I actually like the sound of that. This isn't Improved Ilyich, this is the last fight before the very hard Ascension battle, and you expect it to be a similar difficulty or maybe a step lower. Is it a worry, though, that the PC still has a six-man party who will be of higher level than Balthazar's monks? Maybe in addition to his cool monk powers he'd like two or three really good helpers like (off the top of my head) an epic-level Cleric of Lathander, Stalker, and Invoker?

[GoblinZ]

Hrumph.

I don´t like the sound of making him an turbo monk who kills all.

In my opinion he should either have a handful of powerful followers, OR his surroundings could be trapped heavily; it´s his home, and he´s smart enough, certainly it´d be logical for him to have prepared well for the confrontation? :/

[Link]

Originally posted by Western Paladin: quote: Originally posted by Link: As stated in my previous post, I believe Balthazar to be a man who knows very well the danger that comes with his heritage. Why would he then allow himself to become powerful? Why would he want to gain all those powers when he's unsure whether or not he can control them? Actually, am I the only one who thinks Balthazar is scared of his heritage?

I'm afraid I disagree with you about Balthazar's being scared of his heritage. My impression of him was that he genuinely believed he was doing something right. As we learn from "The Transformation and the Dream" in Spellhold, your Bhaal powers can come out whether you like them to or not. Actually, some of the powers he uses may not come fro Bhaal at all - they may come from his monk training.
[/QUOTE]

I don't see this as a contradiction, really. Can't he be scared of his heritage and at the same time genuinely believe he's doing something right? I know that in "The Transformation and the Dream" you learn that your Bhaal-powers are unpredictable, but surely you must agree with me that actually giving in to the essence (as Bhaal tells you to do!) is giving in to the bloodlust that's in your veins? In the end it's your choice, and your choice alone.
I see Bhaal as a manifestion in each of his children, but a sleeping one for that. He's waiting for his children to shed blood all across the Sword Coast, and the strongest one of them all (i.e. the one who's the most powerful, vicious, cunning etc.) will eventually ensure his ascension to the Throne.

In this line of thought, Balthazar will undoubtedly not allow himself to commit acts of murder, acts of violence or any of that kind. He will not allow himself to give in to the taint. After all, that's what you are told in one of the sequences in your Pocket Plane as well: (something along the lines of "You are no innocent bystander yourself. How many have you killed to get here?"
I see Balthazar as a person who's willing to sacrifice everything (including his own life) to remove the taint of Bhaal from Faerun. This means he will not, ever give in to it. He will have wanted someone else, a group of faithful followers (or some such) to both protect him from others (so he will be one of the last to survive the massacre), and protect himself from giving in to the bloodlust.

Phew.. I really hope I've made myself clear with this speech. I understand if it's all a bit vague, but that's what the whole saga is about, right

[ 07-15-2005, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Link ]

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Well, Link makes some very good points, and I like what Six is saying, too.

So why can't we have it both ways?

Remember, people, he's a monk. If all he wanted to do was control the taint, he'd remain a level-1 commoner and stay in a remote village somewhere. He picked the class of self-perfection so he could control the taint at all times, no matter what. On the way, he picks up abilities not only to protect himself from those who would try and use him, but to enact his ultimate plan- removing the essence from the Realms. So we can have it both ways.

And Six, you're right. Even though Balthazar has the greatest amount of essence other than you, he can't summon up an infinite supply of human beings. That's Yaga-Shura's job.

[Neo the Warrior Cat]

Well, in the case of Yaga-Shura, the endless supply is meant to simulate an army. [img]tongue.gif[/img]