Hey its a kina magic..

I definatly agree with that....once it's in there it's in there..otherwise as was pointed out...you could just keep scribing the same spell with as many scrolls as you could find and get EXP.

I hear that they're getting rid of Spell Memorization in the new 3rd Edition, but it could just be a rumor. Anyone else hear it? And if so any idea on what type of magic system will replace it?

Mustaine

[WOLFGIR]

Well, if you want to relearn a spell you wont get the extra experience for it, but I think you should be able to do it though. And yes, I saw someone else playing the pen & paper game here ! Respect!
Thanks for the tips, but sofar I fell that I could use some more help, but I´ll see if I can have a magic battle this weekend to learn somemore, thanks for the help!

[Mr. Underhill]

Copying A spell into a spell book isn't like writing a simple letter, it's a matter of study and understanding, learning how to channel different magical energies is the calling of a mage. Spell books consist of a magical language and personal notes on how to draw and release magical forces, magic in Fearun is more of a science then a mystery. Mages often share these ideas amongst each other in much the same may a modern mathematician would share an equation with say a physicist. Like a mathmatical formulea once you know it you can't unlearn it, and know matter how brilliant you are there is only so much you can understand. A spell book is essentially a notebook which is used to cataloge a mages aquired magical information. A mage would jot down it, perhaps the nessacary verbal, somatic and even the material components needed for a spell. Many things are involved with the science of magic, a feather for example may be used as a material component for a Fly spell by one mage and another may use, the same feather to poly-morph some one into a chicken. These are materials are used as abstractions to allow a mage to focus his Will into the material world in order to bring about change. The mind is the channel of magical energy, and spell books and feathers and such are just symbols, tools if you will, of one who understands how to thrust or manifest their Will into reality. Sorry I hope that makes sense I kinda got of on a bit of a ramble

I sence a poet in you Mr. Underhill. That was a good description of spell learning and the use of spellbooks. But why is there a limit of spells you can scribble in your spellbook? I know there is a good reason but its been i while since i played a mage or DM so i just cant remember.

[Mr. Underhill]

According to pen and paper rules a spell book has a limited number of pages, I believe there are actually 2 types of spell books one is a large tome consisting of 100+ pages, this though is not used fo adventuring, ie., it is much to heavey to lug around dungeons. The other type is a traveling spell book containing about 50 pages or so. First off, a 1st lv. spell requires roughly 1 page to scribe, and a 2nd lv. spell is also about 2 pages and so on. There just isn't enough room to scrawl a myriad of spells within it's cover. Secondly, pages for a spell book are extremely expensive, due to there high quality. If your a mage you really don't want shoddy paper for your studies. And lastly how in the world would you remove a spell and it's notes from a page, It's pen & ink remember, also the amount of time and effort to transpose a spell into a book would certainly make the most simple cantrip a valued possesion, hence the price of a piece of paper with a spell on it ie,. a scroll. All an all you have to consider that this book contains the lifes work of one whose soul purpose it is is to understand the arcane intricasy of magic that is woven into the very fabric of existence. I dought Nietzche, Einstien or DaVince would simple discard a portion of there notebooks to simply add a new revelation to it. All revelations, even those that appear insignificant compared to something grander are in there own right, comprised of greatness and meaning. So even though one might want to erase a fireball spell, so as to scribble the awesome magic of a delayed balst fireball into their books, if they did not have the room they would most certainly not erase an earlier stage of their magical understanding to do so. How could they erase on equation, when, that equation is in a sense a part of the greater. Okay I'm rambling on again and I have completely strayed from pen&paper rules, any way info on spell books can be found in a Dungeon Masters Guide if this didn't make sense to anyone.

[WOLFGIR]

Mr.Underhill

Well how can you erase ink? How can you comjour demons, call lightning, open planar doors, poit on people and say die!, and they do most the time?
If you want to tell me that no one of these as you refer to daily matheticians, can´t invent a rubber spell, they truly are as matematicians today, they can´t make it work for ordinary people..
Well not to say that the logic of D&D is fault, it is just that in a long article about magic in a famzine also sent to Dragon magazine a long article deesrcibed tomes, books and everything and well the ink mages use is simply magic so they can remove a page if they want, however it takes long toime to do so, and if you want to save the spell you can easily get another book as well or a reference tonmb, well its costly but so can it be to kill dragons, whcih have a substantial amount of goodies stored up..
I for one think its a bad idea that a person will have exp for scribing a spell down into ones book, but well so is it. I just wish for a Baldurs gate with more optinal rules. This way you could choose away of playing that might suit you better.
As an old gamedesigner I want some more freedom, but still as I have stated earlier I think the game is great, and furthermore... I need some help as to find out which spells are more or less vital to have. See the other subjects as to which weapon are the most powerful, which character and so on.. Spells are vital in this game so thereforeI just wished to have some help even though I find this discussion intriguing and interesting.

[Mr. Underhill]

I certainlly wasn't implying you can only have one spell book, and in the world of DnD one could most deffinetly erase ink magically. What I guess I was saying is that they wouldn't want to. The spells in there books are their acheivements there accomplishments, they would most assuredly buy a new spell book to add any further revelations. I think we misunderstand what a spell is. According to alot of different DnD sources, like dragon mag (tho back in the day) and other add-ons and expansions, a spell in a book isn't like a poem are a list words in which you speak in a certain order. It would be more like a notebook containing nessacary info about the magical energies pertaining to what effect you would wish to happen. Like spoken magiccal words or hand gestures and even physical components that would be consumed in the process of casting the spell. Now this is a bit of a long shot, but are u familiar with the movie indiana jones and the last crusade? u know indiana's fathers grail diary, and how it is just random bits of info that he has compiled throughout his years of obbsessin and studeing the mysteries of the holy grail. It's filled with pictures and notes here and there and writings of others on the subject. That is what a wizards spell bokk would be like. I t might even have phone numbers drunkenly scribbled into from meeting nice young elven maidens in the tavern. It's like a journal. I am in complete agreement with you on the the more optional rules and freedom that you mentioned. But the game is already insanely well programed and at a full install is about 2.5 gigs. The future though will offer more freedom and creativity within the gaming envirionment, Neverwinter Hights promises to be a major advancemant in that direction. As of right now though custimizing the game is limited to bassically what teamBG.com has come up with, to fiddle with the game's engine. For usful spells in the game itself I would have to say my favorites are the anti mage spells like breech, spell thrust, ruby ray of reversal, spell sheild, globe of invulnerabilty. But preist spells like chant, rightious magic, call upon holy might, defensive harmony, are great fore the party. I think though the of the best spells in the game is an 8th lv. wizard spell called mass invisibility, itis incredibly usefull. all in all I think it comes down to finding what spells u must enjoy using. my roomate and I have extremley diferent playing styles and they seem to be representive of our personalties. I'ts getting late and my typing skills are just horrible. I should probably retire to my bed soon.... zzzz..

[WOLFGIR]

To Mr.Underhill!!
First of all, I want to applaude you! I espacially liked"drunkenly scribbled into from meeting nice young elven maidens in the tavern. " LOL
Well of course they don´t want to loose their progress of their spells. However i think that we can agree of that if you are out on trekking badies, you want the most potent of your spells in you book, i.e a travelling book that is optimize for the adventures ahead and all other spells they can find they take great care of. Have you read the Dragon lance sreies? Where on of the brothers Majorie, some time a aog so I can´t tell who was who but the mage one killed anyone over spells. Furthermore as to have a spell is builed up D&D is in a very fictionate way of describing spells since most of the hermetic traditions in all the world refer to magic as rituals that takes long tie to prepair and to cast.. For refernce check out the Necronomicon for spell descriptions. (OBS! I´m no devil worshipper, heretic fanatic nor do I believe in it, I just jhave a great curiosity of the occult...) Well I hope you will sleep well and comtinue this discussion with me later on.
Best regards:

[Mr. Underhill]

Actually, alot of magical refrerencies are occult and even alchemical, i'm certainly no practioner but i studie the occult and have long been interested in magic. I read alot of very obscure authors, and I know of the Necronomicon it was writen by abdul alhazred suposedly in 730 a.d. but the oldest manuscript is in latin writtin in 1487. A copy later fell into the hands of John Dee and his assistant edward kelly in 1586. It appears to be a treatise on summoning the "old ones" or "inlightened" butit's writtin mostly in code it is a gnostic alchimical text, pretty much dealing with conscious alteration or expansive. The western occult tradition shares much of it's hidden ideas with hindu and bhudist yoga, tranta(Sex Magic), and middle eastern mysticsm like sufism. Hermetic ritual (spells) are for the most part coded poetry passing on the old gnostic and mystic traditions of the northern africa (Death/Rebirth cults like the Phaoroes Of egypt)th middle east and of far-eastern traditions. It was hiddin in these rituals for the iniate to find, to understand, to experience. Mind altering, Brain Change, or as more modern proponents of the what could be called a "mind revolution" that started with people like tim leary, Alan watts, John C. lilly and aldous Huxley would cal it Meta-programming. But now this is just way of the subject of Baldur's gate And DnD, I apologise for getting so far of subject.

[Memnoch]

Wow!
You guys can sure talk. I think I'll stay out of this one