NWN Dirty Fighting

[ZFR]

So you sacrifice all your extra attacks per round in order to get an additional 1d4 damage? Tell me this is a joke.

[Bozos of Bones]

It is a joke.

[SpiritWarrior]

Yep, an old D&D veteran gag.

[Bozos of Bones]

There are dozens of feats, skills and spells that I have no idea what they were thinking when they made them...
Examples of odd spell relations: Ball Lightning vs Firebrand. Isaac's Greater Missile Storm vs Power Word: Kill. Dismissal vs Banishment. Identify vs Legend Lore. Wail of the Banshee vs Weird. Fireball vs Scintillating Sphere. There's alot more. I'd really like someone to explain some of these to me.

[WOLFGIR]

Well Dirty fighting is a low level feat or good for spellcasters etc that has a low level of attack increase to be able to make some extra damage in melee.

[Bozos of Bones]

Dirty Fighting was removed from 3.5, and in 3.0 it was worth it because it lead to Improved Dirty Fighting which I think added 1d4 to your every first attack in a round or something...
But what about the other things I mentioned?

[ 12-15-2006, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Bozos of Bones ]

[robertthebard]

To the ball lightning/firebrand, fireball/scintillating sphere, some things are immune to fire, while some aren't. These spells give casters options when facing foes that may be immune to one or the other. I don't get the connection between Isaac's and Power Word Kill. Power Word Kill only works on creatures with 60 or fewer(?) hps, while the missile swarm is more of a high powered version of magic missile. Spells that protect you from magic missile won't work against Isaac's. So I don't understand what correlation there may be between the two.

[Bozos of Bones]

BATTLE 1
Power Word: Kill
Allows no save, but does not ignore Spell Resistance. Has short range, and can do up to 100 damage to a single target, or 200 total damage over several targets in a large, only if targets have less than 100 or 20 health, respectively. Countered by Death Ward. Level independant. Level 9 spell.
Isaac's Greater Missile Storm
Allows no save, but does not ignore Spell Resistance. Has long range, and can do 22-40d6 damage to a single target or over several targets in a gargantuan area. Countered by nothing special. Level dependant up to 20. Level 6 spell.
Surely you see how the missiles are twenty times better than Power Word: Kill. PW:K will fizzle if target has 101 health and do no damage. Missiles will pound the target to death. At level 17, Missiles do 34d6 damage, or 34-204, average 119. But then again, this isn't really fair. Isaac's is pretty much in the top 3 spells in the entire game.

BATTLE 2
Fireball and Scintillating Sphere are exactly the same. Except that Fireball has Long range, and SS has Medium. OK, so we'll let that pass.

BATTLE 3
Ball Lightning
Deals up to 15d6 damage, reflex for half, allows spell resistance, distributed over a large area, or focused on one target in medium range.
Firebrand
Deals up to 15d6 damage to 1 creature/level, reflex for half, allows for spell resistance, targets in medium range.
Am I the only one who sees something terribly wrong with this? They're in the same level, and one is infinitely better than the other!

BATTLE 4
Dismissal
Everything summoned(familiars, conjures, pets) in a colossal area makes a Will save or vanish. Level 4 for divine, 5 for arcane magic.
Banishment
Everything summoned in a colossal area makes a Will save or is destroyed. Up to twice the caster's level in HD can be destroyed by this spell. Level 6 for divine, 7 for arcane magic.
Dismissal has a slightly inferior save due to a lower level, but is overall a much more powerful spell since it has no limit on the number of creatures it can kill off, and leaves a higher spell level slot open.

BATTLE 5
Identify
For 2 rounds, the caster gains 10+1/level Lore bonus. Level 1 spell.
Legend Lore
For 2 rounds, the caster gains 10+1/2 levels Lore bonus. Level 4 arcane, 6 divine spell.
What in the crapsticks? This HAS GOT to be a joke.

BATTLE 6
Wail of the Banshee
All enemies in a colossal area make a Fortitude save or die. Up to 1 creature/level can be killed by this spell. Ignores armor and shield casting penalties since it's only Vocal. Creatures immune to Sonic damage(absolutely immune, not resistant) are immune to the spell. Can be countered by Silence, and protection from death effects. Forget about killing Fighers and Paladins with this, unless you have Epic Focus: Necromancy, or extreme Int/Cha.
Weird
All enemies in a colossal area make a Will save. Failing that, they must make a Fortitude Save or die. If they succeed the Fort save, they are dealt 3d6 damage. Creatures with less than 4HD die automatically. Countered by True Seeing, and protection from Mind affecting spells or fear. Forget about killing Rogues, Arcane Spellcasters, Fighters, Divine Spellcasters, Paladins... May kill a Ranger if you're lucky.
Why would ANYONE EVER use Weird? I don't think you can get sorrounded by more than 20 enemies ANYWHERE in the game, unless you're kiting around the map.

...

[WOLFGIR]

Hiya Bozo, a few pointers:

Battle 1:
You still can't choose to attack one person if there are more targets around in NWN 2, correct? Noticed this in NWN 1 and that made the spell pretty useless since it hit some people here and there with some damge. Powerword Kill that makes 200 damage is good since the creature hit has more or less always to make a fort vs massive damage regardless of size, but otherwise I agree.

Battle 2:
-

Battle 3:
Agree!

Battle 4:
Hit dice means that more and more will be affected and be a valid spell when a will save of 10+5 or 5 + modifier ins't threatening anything aftyer a while. see demons and devils abilities to summon help and they got pretty decent will saves...

Battle 5:
This got to be broken...

Battle 6:
I think you are wrong here sice wierd is the perfect clear "room of rouges" spell and Wail is clear "room of wizards".

Remember that rouges have bad wil and fort saves!

Won't kill the ranger with a weird.

Finally, these spells are for more then just the OC so hopefully some of them will be of better use once the modules start appearing on the net [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Legolas]

BATTLE 1
Power Word: Kill vs. Isaac's Greater Missile Storm
The Power Word's strength is its ability to kill without needing to worry about damage resistances or high saving throws. Magic damage resistance 10/- pretty much kills IGMS, high Fortitude saves kill spells like Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee. IGMS has another weakness in that its damage is spread out over several victims if you are fighting many foes at once. Of course, PW:K's ability to ignore fortitude saves isn't all that grand when you consider it's the high hitpoint classes like fighters who have the highest, and since they can easily have 100+ hitpoints long before you are able to cast PW:K you'll have to soften them up first.

BATTLE 2
Fireball vs. Scintillating Sphere
Different types of energy make a difference. The fireball is a bit more powerful because fire immunity is a bit more common. Try Scintillating Sphere vs. Lightning Bolt though, that's just sad.

BATTLE 3
Ball Lightning vs. Firebrand
Same argument as above, except that in this case the firebrand is a lot more powerful.

BATTLE 4
Dismissal vs. Banishment
Unlike Dismissal, Banishment also has a chance of destroying outsiders. Devils, daemons, angels, dire beasts, you name it. Poof.

BATTLE 5
Identify vs. Legend Lore
Identify lasts 2 rounds, Legend Lore one turn per level. That alone is only worth so much but they also stack, meaning a diviner character will cast both to boost the lore skill even further.

BATTLE 6
Wail of the Banshee vs. Weird
Wail is indeed more useful in most cases. You only have to pass a fortitude save, instead of a fortitude and will save. The strength of Weird and Phantasmal Killer is rather that they ignore Death and Necromantic immunity, so Shadow Shield or Death Ward alone won't save the character. Flesh to Stone's a good choice too in such situations, but not an AoE. The minor damage contributes to an area-based 'die or damage' effect but in most cases you'll prefer the more personal Finger of Death for that kind of work.
As an aside, I'd use Wail over Weird any day when clearing a room of rogues. Why give them a bonus Will save to resist?