Racial Thread

[jabidas]

I dont know much about racism because im not racist and I know very few people who are and when they voice their misguided opinions they tend to be the ones discriminated against. Living in Ireland some people are a little apprehensive about foreigners but not against them in any major way, while thats most people there are some big problems as in when some of them come here the companies that hire them try to take advantage of them but thats being stopped, big thing in the news recently. The other big problem in Ireland with racism is Romanian gypsies who come to Ireland to take advantage of the social welfare system because of the presently good economy, I know some people get very angry at that but its not racist anger its people getting annoyed over being taken advantage of but im sure racism is going to find its way into that.


Hmmm my favorite tee-shirt is a beer one they were giving out free to people who collected for charity, strange day.

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[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Lord Shield: It's a poem I've heard before from a black friend of mine . It would be silly for me to be racist, since my girlfriend is black and I'm not - it exists, though not ot the extent the telly would have you believe - a lot of "racial attacks" are muggings - however, there is still a lot of racial abuse - strangely enough a lot of it my g/f gets from old people :O (no offense to Fljotsdale (K))

And no offense taken! My father was racist in a funny way. He had very close friends who were Indian/Pakistani when he was in the army in India prior to WW2, and he had a black friend at his place of work when I was a teenager. But as a child I had no idea of this and I personally had never seen a black person until one day, when I was around 8-10 yrs old, I saw a black man walking in the road where we lived. I was totally enchanted! He seemed like someone from The Arabian Nights! When he had gone, I rushed inside the house and announced joyfully that I was going to marry a black man when I grew up. My dad wenk berserk. I hardly knew what had hit me - and I certainly didn't understand. I still don't. Even today I cannot see why a man who was happy to have black and brown friends was so infuriated by a childish wish to marry a black man. People are so odd and irrational!


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[Cavern Sniffer]

I never thought of that as a poem, im sure it started life as a joke. The black guys in my school used to use this exact poem? to take the friendly piss out of us 25 years ago, we all (black & white together) laughed at it then and its still funny now.

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It's bleedin dark down here, slippery too.
Man, that's a pisser.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Melusine: Moridin, I see what you mean, because sometimes positive discrimination is taken too far. I for one cannot stand it if I get into a discussion or arguement with someone from Turkey or Marocco (lots of people from those countries living in Holland) and they tell me I am probably a racist anyway just because I disagree with them...such a horrible way to misuse your own position as a discriminated group!! But can't you see that in most cases, positive discrimination is simply there because there is no other way in which everybody is treated equally??? For example, if we in Holland have a law that each company should hire at least 5% of employees with a physical disability, the reason is that these people would NEVER be hired otherwise!!! Sounds logical, doesn't it?

Melusine, I agree that we do need 'some' programs which benefit minorities of all kinds, but sometimes these programs are put into place at the cost of others.
An example of this is at my University. Of the 37 scholarships available through the scholarship office, I am(was) eligible for 1! And this one's requirements were A)you had to be at least a junior and B)you had to have at least a 3.5/4.0 GPA. It is automatically assumed that b/c I am a white male, that my parents must be rich and can afford to send me to Uni. So while these other scholarships may be helping a minority student go to Uni., they are discriminating against me! And I wonder what would happen if I started a scholarship for while, middle-class, males?
Yes, the programs are needed, but they are being used as a crutch and sooner or later we are going to have to learn to 'walk' without that crutch.


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

[Lavindathar]

I posted this poem because it appealed to me. I didn't think that it would cause arguments, as I had no intention of it doing this.

I just liked it, and I thought that other people could see it. Ok, it might be a little political, and i am the least political person around, but I just received it and liked it.

If anyone doesn't like it, I apologise, and for those who do, I am grateful for your thanx.

P.S - Moridin, PLEASE stop using my colour.It's What makes me an individual!!

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[Lifetime]

Excellent poem, and I respect a lot of the members of this board a lot more now because of the controversy this could potentially cause on a less "stable" board, which has not occured and hopefully will not.
If I could just share a little insight I gained from living in a nation with 4 different ethnic races and a long troubled history of racial violence..

First a small introduction to people unfamiliar with the way Singapore works (that would probably include most of you )
There are 4 ethnic groups, Chinese, Malays, Indians and Eurasians, and other "minorities"
Of these, Chinese are the most numerous, Eurasians the least. Our history is one where foreign rulers have played the ethnic groups against each other time and time again, with the British starting by separating the racial groups, and the Japanese by using divide and conquer tactics. Singapore was originally founded and populated by people of many different countries, seeking to find work in an international port, and many of which have never met people of another skin colour or race or religion before. Cutting a long story short, we have a history of violence and discrimination between racial and religious groups, and while our history of bloodshed might pale in comparison to that of say, for example the USA, to a small country like ours, it is something significant.
Singapore is commonly viewed by many as stable and harmonious, with people of all races and religion working together as neighbours and friends to a common goal. In such a small nation, religious and racial tolerance is key, and is exercised and thought at schools and at workplaces. But beneath all this lies a very fragile and thin balance, a single stick of dynamite waiting to explode. Hopefully, such a thing should never happen, but in everyday life, it is very easy to see how something like that could occur.
While our country's national day slogan is "One People, One Nation, One Singapore", discrimination and racial tension is very, very common. The balance is such that while many inter-racial disputes occur, they are very rarely reported in public newspapers or reports because of the stir it could cause in our community. Incidences like throwing pork into Malay/Muslim homes have become local urban legends. In any nation, no matter how peaceful and tranquil, any nation with a racial balance like Singapore's will always experience racial tension and disputes. I'm sure Yorick, who resides here currently can tell you something of the degree of racial and religious tolerance present here in Singapore, that is so vital to our survival as a united nation. No matter how you treat people of a different race, there will always be tension. Singapore is unique because of its racial composition, which unlike the USA, is very balanced. Even so, it is not hard to see the dominant ethnic group in the nation, the Chinese. Even though our National Anthem and Language is in Malay, and our President currently Indian, Singapore is very much a Chinese-dominated playing field. The best schools and jobs go to Chinese, the best education, the best of almost anything they can grab. Malays especially, because of their special religious practices, and also because of the presence of a larger, stronger nation like Malaysia, are given special treatment and concessions, and are also the most targetted group among the Chinese, for old hurts die hard with every generation. Many young Singaporeans are filled with a resentment for Malays and Malay culture and Malay influences, and the threat of an ever-present Malaysia, which currently provides us with precious water.
The strange thing is, when Chinese go overseas, they become the minority, they become mistreated because of their size and physical differences. Unfortunate as it is, while racial discrimination is something we all loathe and detest in word, it is something subconciously practiced by many of us, every day, when we see someone of a different colour on the street. Aggressors become the Victims and vice versa. It also does not hurt our national pride that some Singaporeans still ritualistically worship foreigners and anyone with blonde hair, because of the foreign, everpresent American influence on daily life. It is unfortunate that Americans (nothing against them, am one myself) are idealised in a nation that is predominantly Asian. I won't excuse myself of valuing foreign ideas and influences over local ones, because it is something I do every day, but many people take it too far, either by "worshipping" such things and imitating them, to little success, or to taking such an intense dislike for anyone of a different race to the point of Nazi-like perspectives.
Singapore is a land of contradictions, many of them strange if you probe into our subculture, but it is one where we have managed to suppress and contain such racial tension and work side by side, and I for one, and damn proud to live here
Sorry for the long post, just had something to share.

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Why?

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Lavindathar: P.S - Moridin, PLEASE stop using my colour.It's What makes me an individual!!

Oh Lavindathar are we not feeling like an individual
Before asking me to change my color, perhaps you should have looked at which color I was using, hmmmmm...
You use this color, cyan
I occassionally use this color, aqua
but, I also, on occassion use this color, lightgreen
And sometimes this color, dodgerblue
And until you put a copyright on cyan, I may sometimes, occassionally, use it, but I will try not too ok


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

[This message has been edited by Moridin (edited 06-25-2001).]

[Bahamut]

witty poem... in my opinion why call someone colored when you yourself are? i think...

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Yukishiro Tomoe

[Gaelic]

I think the poem is just fine but I do have a story to tell.

When I was a freshman in college, I had my name on the front page of the school paper, named as a "racist" and a "black-hating bigot." Let me tell you how that came to pass.

I was a student Senator in or student government organization. Part of our job was to dole out money from a sizable discretionary fund that was to be used to make up shortfalls in fundraising efforts of student run organizations. One of the stipulations was that money from this fund could not become "a de facto part of the budget" of one of the student organizations. There was a group that came asking for close to $20,000. That was 1/6 of the entire annual fund! They were a gospel singing organization that was raising money for their major annual competition and fell short of their goal. There were several problems with their request. The first was that they had requested and received money from the fund for that very purpose 7 of the previous 8 years. Second, each year the number of people they wanted to bring to the competition increased every year (this year it was to be over 100!). Third, they wanted to fully fund the attendance of every person going, to include per diem as pocket money. Fourth, as their membership increased, their incoming funds also increased over the years. However, they also increased their obligations in performances and competitions without planning in their budget. They just came to the Senate for money every year. Fifth, they admitted to knowing they would fall short all the way back to the previous year and still did not reduce their expenditures to match. Finally, the money was also to be used to purchase new robes for the singers in the competition, which was not allowed in the regulations.

I was on the committee who reviewed these requests and made recommendations to the Senate at large. I was the spokesman for the committee. I am a white male. We had told the group that our recommendation would be not to approve their request. As I went to the Senate meeting that day, I was threatened and intimidated by several groups of people, all black, who called me many racist names and threatened physical violence against me. I stood in the Senate and argued against giving them the money for all the reasons listed above. The Senate listened to me and the request was voted down. Two days later, the article on the meeting was published. The article, written by a black woman, called me the names listed above and claimed I only argued against the request because it was a predominantly black organization. I was never interviewed or asked my thoughts before it was printed and dealt with a great deal of hatred from people as a result. The article ignored all the points above.

The point of this is that race issues are not just used against "minorities." Racism exists and is pointed in all directions, to include at white people. The only way we will ever get past it is to completely level the playing field, encourage the media to report in an even-handed way, abolish programs that discriminate against ANYONE, and not tolerate situations that are otherwise.



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Gaelic

[MILAMBER]

It looks like I'm the only one here who doesn't think the poem is great.

Believe me, I think racism sucks. It is a disgusting thing that still exists but for the most part has gotten much better. Minorities have been forever asking to be judged "not by the color of [their] skin, but by the content of [their] heart". I completely agree with this notion. Color shouldn't be an issue. Now, seeing how color isn't an issue, I don't think it should be used as a weapon or arguement to show how "wrong" non minorities are.

There should be no difference right? We are all human beings. This poem draws more racial lines then it helps remove. It clearly points out the differences between races when I would hope for a poem that tries to make these differences seem as trivial as they really are.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB