Balrogs in AD&D?

Just a note about Balor [img]smile.gif[/img] it was changed to Balor after
a lawsuit or threatened lawsuit from the Tolkien Estate
was filed [img]smile.gif[/img] I remember those days well.. hell you can't even
find the Dieties and Demigods book for sale anywhere nor do WotC
sell electronic prints of it...it was sooooooo full of other peoples copyright
work [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: Just a note about Balor [img]smile.gif[/img] it was changed to Balor after a lawsuit or threatened lawsuit from the Tolkien Estate was filed [img]smile.gif[/img] I remember those days well.. hell you can't even find the Dieties and Demigods book for sale anywhere nor do WotC sell electronic prints of it...it was sooooooo full of other peoples copyright work [img]smile.gif[/img]

Really? I have the 1978 edition monster manual,(Bluish-cover with a Red Dragon in the middle) and it's listed as Balor. They must have taken it after the 1977 first print! Or there is a print before that I am unaware of.

I am fortunate to have an original copy of the Dieties and Demigods, before it was edited for the copyright stuff. Its in poor shape though and I plan to find another at some point when I have extra mullah. I have seen copies listed on E-Bay in the $50 range in good condition.

Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Just a note about Balor [img]smile.gif[/img] it was changed to Balor after a lawsuit or threatened lawsuit from the Tolkien Estate was filed [img]smile.gif[/img] I remember those days well.. hell you can't even find the Dieties and Demigods book for sale anywhere nor do WotC sell electronic prints of it...it was sooooooo full of other peoples copyright work [img]smile.gif[/img]

Really? I have the 1978 edition monster manual,(Bluish-cover with a Red Dragon in the middle) and it's listed as Balor. They must have taken it after the 1977 first print! Or there is a print before that I am unaware of.

I am fortunate to have an original copy of the Dieties and Demigods, before it was edited for the copyright stuff. Its in poor shape though and I plan to find another at some point when I have extra mullah. I have seen copies listed on E-Bay in the $50 range in good condition. [/QUOTE]
Dunno the specifics just the notes I have jotted on my papers here. Apparently there were 9 printings of the basic Monsters Manual (who would have guessed?) they all look identicle as far as covers go....but Im betting that the ones available on the WotC website are the ones that do not contain any copyrighted material. I have to admit that my copy of the book was destroyed/lost during my divorce so all I have is a sheaf of papers in a manilla folder I could be wrong I suppose. Edit: I do know that "Balor" was supposed to be a proper name for one of the type VI demons.

[ 06-15-2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Desuma Malevois]

They were called balrogs in the original boxed set of D&D, before 1st edition AD&D came out (IIRC halflings were also called hobbits at that time).

Hey...I do recall soemthing about Hobbits changing to haflings too....man that was so so long ago...hrrrm now I got to unbox all my old stuff so I can see what I still have left...I think Dragon Magazine had some kind of cartoon that had some halflings being confused about the name change....


[ 06-16-2003, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Tancred]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: edit: It's odd that with all the new tolkien hype because of the movies that there isn't an official LOTR sourcebook, or maybe there is and because I don't keep up with 3rd ed. I have missed it. It seems like the kind of licensing that WOTC would eat up in a heart beat.

Wizards of the Coast don't have the rights - New Line Cinema sold the licence to produce a LotR roleplaying game to a company called Decipher.

It's rather good. Based on D20-system. Less complex than MERP. You really needed to take university degrees in 'Middle Earth Mythology' and 'Advanced Roleplaying Mechanics' to even UNDERSTAND good ol' MERP.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Tancred: You really needed to take university degrees in 'Middle Earth Mythology' and 'Advanced Roleplaying Mechanics' to even UNDERSTAND good ol' MERP.

Too true. Well, let's hope the new one is good. My problem with RP in Middle Earth is that it's just really pretty small and non-diverse. Besides, I try not to RP where there's so much detail already present to trip up a storyline.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Tancred: It's rather good. Based on D20-system. Less complex than MERP. You really needed to take university degrees in 'Middle Earth Mythology' and 'Advanced Roleplaying Mechanics' to even UNDERSTAND good ol' MERP.

I never played MERP myself, but a few members of our group did. One of them (who was even newer to RP games than myself) changed the name to B.U.R.Ps (Boring Unsurvivable Role Playing [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] ) From what I heard of the game, that was a pretty accurate description.

My roommate and I also re-wrote the stats for several monsters in the 1st Edition Monster Manual...most specifically DRAGONS!!!! Gygax may have been a visionary, but he seriously underestimated the levels that characters would achieve.

A 20th level fighter should be able to clear out an entire den of 1st Edition dragons as written in the MM1.

I also collaborated with another member of the group to do our own write-up of the Balrog. We basically combined the powers of the Balor from MM1 with a Solar from MM2. I got rid of a LOT of my PnP material several years ago, but I think I may have kept that particular info. I will look for it later tonight and post it if I find it.

The 150HD version from 3rd Edition sounds great, but based on the rapid advancement characters achieve in the new version, I still have to wonder if it would be adequate.

Bah....everybody knows that barbarians don't like change. I'll always be a 1st Edition man myself.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Bah....everybody knows that barbarians don't like change. I'll always be a 1st Edition man myself.

Me, too. Resurrect the Wandering Monster Roll! Just say no to feats and presiege classes. [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

[Morgeruat]

Here Here, sounds the call, we must reverse the flow of time. lol (Although Kenzer & co's Hackmaster is based very strongly on 1st Ed (it's increasing popularity is due mostly to old school gamers who want the game they were weaned on back