Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?

[Firestormalpha]

I'd have to side with Beaumanoir on this. If the objective is to intervene when anyone does anything that goes against your beliefs then Westboro's people are justified. They're just following their beliefs. I do believe that it is a responsible thing to defend the rights of others to say... gather and mourn the loss of a loved one and or friend.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

But they're doing it as Christians and it's not their place to say that God punished those people.

And intervening does not have to be anything forceful. It could be as simple as educating them or others that that is not what we believe.

I don't think it's so different from helping someone who's being attacked. Do we walk by and say "not my problem", or do we intervene, even at our own peril?

[Cerek]

I agree Christians need to speak up and speak out when they see other Christians saying or doing things they feel contradicts the Scriptures or Jesus' teachings.

I've had an atheist friend criticise me plenty of times for NOT speaking out against such actions as those by Rev. Phelps. Of course, when I DO speak out and say they are not following the teachings of Jesus, he criticises me for claiming they aren't "True Christians", so it's basically a lose-lose scenario. However, he does have a point that Christian should speak out when other "Christians" do things that go against the teachings of the Bible.

Another one of my good friends from college is an ordained Lutheran minister. He also is a very prejudiced person, for whatever reason. I can see being prejudiced before entering the seminary, but I have a very difficult time accepting the fact that he has maintained his prejudices AFTER being professionally trained to study, learn and preach God's Word. When we accept Jesus as our Savior, we are supposed to have a change of heart and forego our former sinful ways. That doesn't mean we won't ever sin again, but the thought should be far less appealing and we should struggle with it when it happens. I don't see evidence of either of these with him. I've called him out on it before, only to find myself being chastised by yet a third member of our group for "speaking ill of a man of God". Well, I will tell a Christian brother or sister my feelings if I think they are going against the Scriptures in their actions or words.

I've even crossed swords with our own Sojourner in the past, but we reconciled our differences of opinion fairly easily.

Bottom line is that Christians DO have an obligation to intervene (in some way) when they see saying or doing things that go against the Scriptures.

[Firestormalpha]

Originally Posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood Sorry, I was referring to anyone who does the sort of thing they do, or anything else that goes against our beliefs.

What I mean to say is that a statment like what I've bolded in the quote could easily be taken too far. No doubt the Westboro church felt they were just standing up for their beliefs, but they were taking things too far.

I didn't mean to imply that it's wrong to speak up, or do anything, but how you react to a situation has more impact than some people realize.

Perhaps, I simply have an irrational desire to have everything spelled out for me, so there's no room for misunderstanding?

[Beaumanoir]

Originally Posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood And intervening does not have to be anything forceful. It could be as simple as educating them or others that that is not what we believe.

To be honest, I imagine that this does more damage than good in a lot of cases. I feel, and have heard MANY MANY people say the same, 'I don't mind religious people, but I hate it when they try and force it on you'.

I'm aware you wouldn't 'force' anything, don't worry, but people of opposite beliefs can find any uninvited sharing of opinions like this as a forcing. I've had it off some very zealous people before. From many religions, from christianity to those Krazee Krishnas

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Oh yes, I've experienced the same. People acting out in our church and then you try to show them in the scriptures how far off base they and just won't hear it.

[Firestormalpha]

That's unfortunate Variol. People professing to be christians, but when faced with correction from the scriptures of their own faith, their reaction is denial. That's truly an unfortunate thing.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Yes, we finally had to issue a protection of property act to remove him. Lucky, the others removed themselves.

I don't get it. If you're "not" happy at your church, go somewhere else. Of course in this persons case, so many other churches knew about him, they wouldn't have him either.

Well, I think it's LOBT

Blessings and pleasant REM's.

Edit: Thanks for pointing out my error Firestormalpha. I forgot the "not" in there. I shouldn't type when I'm tired.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Cerek Lavindathar is correct - I'm curious. You don't believe any gods exist, yet you have a strong faith. The two seem to be mutually exclusive (to me), so I'm curious what you have faith in. My apologies if you've answered this before. I've been gone for three years and I don't remember what you may have said before. I'm also curious why you keep responding to a thread you consistently state your dislike? You don't like these threads, they accomplish nothing, they are a waste of time, etc. And yet, you keep posting. That just doesn't make sense to me. If I don't like a certain thread, I usually avoid the thread. For instance, Cloudy's Cafe' just isn't my cup of tea. Nothing wrong with the thread or the posts there, it just doesn't appeal to me, so I don't post there. Please understand that I am not criticizing you or trying to "call you out" in any way. I just find it odd for somebody to post in a thread they claim they don't like. So I'm curious as to what keeps drawing you back here. You're input and opinions are always welcome.

I am happy to participate in any discussion. IF you look closely none of the 5 stated reasons or opinions I offered way back on page 4 indicated I personally dislike discussion of the topic. I simply recognize the danger.

Fact of the matter is I am short on time so your curiosity may have to wait. One note I did say most all gods and dietys were myths, not that they do not exist. That's an important distinction.

Farewell.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca One note I did say most all gods and dietys were myths, not that they do not exist. That's an important distinction. Farewell.

Actually, many Christians (including Kay Arthur) believe that behind every deity/idol, is a demon.

I have not done any research on it, but I can certainly see the relation.