Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Classics > Icewind Dale | Heart of Winter | Icewind Dale II Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-06-2003, 05:40 PM   #11
Borg
The Magister
 

Join Date: March 25, 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 52
Posts: 137
Hmmm. A lot of mixed opinions. Just to make sure, you have BGII SoA and ToB, right? If you don't have ToB, I think you should get that first before going to IWD2. I definitely think ToB is better than getting IWD2.

If that's out of the way, the question is, do you play BGII again and save 20 Euros or get IWD2. That might partially depend on how big of a deal 20 Euros is to you. But that aside, I would get IWD2 if you want to have some fun with new rules and character types. Yes, IWD2 is linear, but if you have already played BGII, it too will feel somewhat linear. If, instead, you want to play with different NPC interactions and/or alignments than you have before in BGII round, then don't get IWD2 right now and play BGII again.
Borg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2003, 07:38 PM   #12
StarVid
Elminster
 

Join Date: September 23, 2001
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
Age: 45
Posts: 486
How much is £20 anyway? For all I know, this game could be USD$0.50, though I still wouldn't get it unless you like games that are just fighting long streams of monsters without much thought. There really isn't even a whole lot of strategy necessary in the battles themselves. You're in an area, there's lots of monsters, you kill them, some NPC tells you where to go next, which happens to be a place with lots of monsters, that you kill, and an NPC...see the pattern. Because there's really no compelling storyline, all you have to do is decide whether or not you feel like killing a monster with a fireball, or axe, or skull trap, or a sword. I got the game for free, and I still feel like I was ripped off.
__________________
\"Has anyone seen my legs? They\'re not where I usually keep them, which is under my waist.\"
StarVid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 12:26 AM   #13
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 6,763
Everyone have their own taste. Personally, I feel like there is a lot of stratgy in the game, and it's very hard.
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 12:33 AM   #14
ZFR
Legion Symbol
 

Join Date: February 14, 2002
Location: Ireland
Age: 39
Posts: 7,367
Both IWD and IWD2 are excellent games... even though BG series was better... so i would advise to buy it

The storyline in IWD is great... and linear only means you have to go in a fixed order... the story is still great

and it does need a lot of strategy this one
__________________
ZFR
ZFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 06:00 PM   #15
StarVid
Elminster
 

Join Date: September 23, 2001
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
Age: 45
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally posted by Luvian:
Everyone have their own taste. Personally, I feel like there is a lot of stratgy in the game, and it's very hard.
I breezed through this game. Especially considering I didn't have to worry about needing spells like breach, warding whip, or spellstrike (which was a total pain in the ass in BG2). Once in a while I might need to throw a dispel in the mix, but getting through the locations was a cakewalk.

Felix, I really hope you just save your money.
__________________
\"Has anyone seen my legs? They\'re not where I usually keep them, which is under my waist.\"
StarVid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 07:38 PM   #16
Micah Foehammer
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
 

Join Date: November 15, 2001
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 3,253
Just to throw my 2 cents into the mix:

I liked all four games under discussion (IWD, IWD2, BG, and BG2) and found little difference between them when you get right down to it. BG2 becomes a cake walk when you get 30th level characters and the game can easily be beaten with a party of 2 or even a solo character when you get characters that powerful. At least IWD2 offers a semblance of a challenge when you throw in HoF mode and try to solo the game STARTING from scratch on HOF mode!

Comments about linearity of IWD IMHO are WAY overblown. ALL crpgs suffer from linearity to some degree no matter how much some people claim otherwise, and BG, BG2, IWD and IWD2 are ALL comparable in that regard.

I didn't think the plot line of IWD2 was significantly worse or less involved than the plot line of IWD or BG2. Personally I liked the plot line of BG1 the best of all four.

As for comments about "roleplaying - IMO unless you are playing in a multiplayer game, the best a CRPG can offer in a single player game is to make you think about how your character would react given certain circumstances through dialogue options with various NPCS. "Do I kill so-so just because he is a drow even though he hasn't demonstrated that he is inherently evil and I am good?" Only a multiplayer game allows for TRUE roleplaying through character interaction (e.g NWN). Unfortunately IWD2 is almost totally unplayable in multiplayer mode (as was IWD once HoW was installed).

IWD2 DOES offer 3E rules which I personally believe allows more flexibility and diversity in character creation over the 2E. Again this is simply opinion and a personal preference, but I like what the rule set offers. [img]smile.gif[/img]

So if you liked IWD or BG1 or BG2, then IWD2 offers more of the same and as such, is probably worth the money. However, you can probably get a better price on BG2 so it may be a better dollar value at this time. However, I don't believe it is a significantly better or different gaming experience than IWD2. If you absolutely HATED IWD, then it is doubful that you will enjoy IWD2 so steer clear of it.
__________________
“Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3793&dateline=1187636  783
Micah Foehammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 07:52 PM   #17
Kakero
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: March 24, 2002
Posts: 10,215
I don't know what's the shop policy overthere, but can't you buy it and test the game first and return it to the shop if you are not satisfy with it?
Kakero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 08:09 PM   #18
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 6,763
StarVid, you are the only one that say the game is not worth getting.

Why don't you try explaining your opinion a little better than "The game suck, I breezed trough it."

Maybe then, we could all have a discussion, and it might even help FelixJaeger make his decision.
Just saying "it suck" will acomplish nothing. It's only your opinion, and we can't read your mind to know why you think so.

So, do you want to explain to us why you don't like the game?
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 11:02 PM   #19
StarVid
Elminster
 

Join Date: September 23, 2001
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
Age: 45
Posts: 486
Quote:
Why don't you try explaining your opinion a little better than "The game suck, I breezed trough it."
I believe I did, look at my other posts. But you want more detail? There will be spoilers, but I'll warn ahead of time.

Quote:
StarVid, you are the only one that say the game is not worth getting.
You're not going to find anyone else tell you the game sucks, because the people who think the game sucks doesn't waste their time on these forums. Makes sense, doesn't it? Luckily for me (and Felix), I'm a grad student with way too much free time on my hands this week. And keep in mind, with how much free time I have and how bored I've been this week, I'm still not wasting my time on this game. Though, I actually started a new game in it recently to give it another shot. But I didn't even finish the first map before I decided to put away the game for good.

Quote:
As for comments about "roleplaying"...
STORYLINE:

The storyline was boring. You'll figure most of it out before you are halfway through the game. There will be nothing significant left to figure out, therefore nothing compelling you to finish from an intellectual standpoint. At least in BG2 you were moving forward to figure out who Irenicus is and what his deal is. And then you moved forward to find out more about the Bhaalspawn legacy. There's none of that in IWD2. Before the halfway point in the game, the bosses you fight tell you almost everything you need to know about the story, and it's extremely easy to guess the rest. Here's the SPOILER. Basically, by the halfway point, you find out that the endless stream of enemies are caused by these two twins who are building an army to conquer the Dale. I don't know if I'm remembering this right, but later on you find out that the twins are crossbreeds (with demons or something) who started their own town and they were just trying to set up trade relations with other towns in the Dale. Instead of being nice about it the other towns (Targos, I believe) sent the ambasadors back with some virus/poison/infection to hopefully wipe out the town. The twins got pissed, and war ensued. END SPOILER. Overall, the storyline was extremely basic, with no subplot, a weak premise, and only one really lame plot twist. It has the intellectual stimulation of children's television.

The ending was insanely stupid, and a lot of people on the Interplay boards (which are busier than here, maybe you'd like to get more opinions there. http://forums.interplay.com ) griped about it. Basically, people wanted the option to side with the "bad guys" because they really weren't the bad guys in the end, depending on your perspective of the situation. Frankly, the people of the Dale towns got what was coming to them.

The game was extremely linear, which was so annoying because the option for multiple endings would have been quite appropriate in this situation. And the storyline was so boring (I think I've said this many times). It wasn't even as if the NPCs were talking in character. Whenever a mini-boss would "tell you his evil plan before he kills you", he would tell it as if a friend was telling you about what happened in a game.

*yawn*

GAMEPLAY:

Gameplay? Easy. Easy. Easy. Yeah, I could have started a party in HoF at level 1, but there wouldn't have been a point. Gameplay was also extremely boring. It was just an endless stream of battles from beginning to end. Level up now and again, increase your abilities, use it on the endless stream of enemies, and continue. It was very Diablo-esqe (i.e. monotonous) in that regard. The enemies weren't interesting, and the same tactics that work for the first battle, works for every other battle. No thought necessary. In BG2 it was different (I didn't like BG2 either, but I won't get into that here). Eventually you had to learn when and where to use breach, spellstrike, etc. which could be annoying busywork for your mages, but at least it made things more interesting. Also, you faced a better variety of enemies with regards to their abilities and attributes.

In short, IWD2 was like a game of Pong.

You really should check out the Interplay boards. They're busier, and the members are much more informed about the inner workings of Interplay and their projects. Also, there are a lot less fanboys over there. Not that there's anything wrong with being a fanboy, but you'll have an easier time at getting both sides of the story.

[ 05-07-2003, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: StarVid ]
__________________
\"Has anyone seen my legs? They\'re not where I usually keep them, which is under my waist.\"
StarVid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 11:47 PM   #20
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 6,763
Now that's a better post!

Personally, I liked the storyline. Not all story keep you in the dark until the very end. Just take the Matrix, for example. After about 20 mins of the movie you knew who the bad guys were. (The robots) And it's still a great movie. I think I could count on one hand all the movie I saw in which we never found out who was the bad guy before the very end. Most of the time, you know everything before half the story.

And personally, I don't think the BG2's story was any harder to figure out. BG2 spoilers here: You wake up in your cell, and you meet Irenicus, a few mins later, Imoen get abducted. There are various hints that both Irenicus and Bodhi are elves, and it get confirmed a little later in the underdark. You then go beat Bodhi, go to the elven city, kill Irenicus, and SOA is over. TOB is not any harder to figure out. It's pretty obvious that a certain female mage is a traitor, and it's also very obvious that a certain martial artist is a member of a certain club. BG2 spoilers end here.

Both Icewind Dale games were marketed as Dungeon Crawl games. That was the main theme of both those games. They are more about the adventures than the dialogs. That was done on purpose.

Icewind Dale II spoiler here: It was actually Holy water that was sent to the demons. They drank it and got burned. That pissed them off a Little. I agree with you, I don't really feel bad for the villagers. That was obvious doing such an act would start a war. End Icewind Dale II spoiler here.

It's commonly accepted that Icewind Dale II is harder than Baldur's Gate II. So maybe you are simply too good, or maybe you powerplay too much. Did you consider trying "weaker" classes? Like a simple minded bard, or something like that? That's the essence of roleplaying.

And talking about Roleplaying... You seem to have missed something. Roleplaying is not found in a game. What does roleplaying mean? It mean assuming the role of a character, his motives, his personality, his fears, acting as him.

You could roleplay in Diablo if you wanted, or even in Unreal. How about playing a chainsaw maniac who is afraid of height? Or a guy who refuse to harm a female? That would certainly make some interesting and deadly Deathmaches. A game has as much roleplaying in it as you want it to. The only limit is your imagination. The category of games we call roleplaying games are simply games in which you gain levels, and in which you have some kind of dialogs. Both things that are absolutely not required to be able to roleplay.

As for the ending... I agree with you, I was expecting more from it.

And to get back on gameplay, I needed to use lots of different tactics to be able to defeat my enemies. Hack and slash rarely worked, and as you said, there is no breach spells, so it made fighting mages that much harder. Lots of people had trouble with though monsters, I saw tons of post from people asking for help defeating the Guardian, or other monsters I won't name to avoid spoilers.

Yes, the game is more combat oriented, but I found those fights to be well thought off, and the dialogs that were in the game were all excellents in my opinion. There was so many possibilities. For once, you can bully people, you can con then, a guard is blocking your way? No problem, just scare him, or tell him his boss his calling for him, or just use diplomacy. There is also the races and classes. All classes get specials dialogs option from time to time. And some races can understand some languages other class can't. In short, every dialogs has multiple possibilities to complete it. My paladins once saved me from doing a whole quest thanks to a special dialog only paladins get. I was also able to get some more info (and xp) thanks to my elves and my bard. And it's also funny to play as a Drow and see how npcs react to you.

One of the most interesting thing in the game, is that you can really play an evil character for once. There is plenty of dialog options for that! [img]smile.gif[/img]

But then again, this is only my opinion, it's not better that yours, and yours is not better than mine. We can't all have the same tastes.

To finish, you said you don't like Icewind Dale II, and probably not Icewind Dale I either, then, and you also said you didn't like BG II. Did you consider that maybe you simply don't like Dungeon and Dragons games? Or maybe Black Island games?

Anyway, your last post was lot better! Although I don't agree with you, I can now understand why you don't like the game.

[ 05-07-2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved