Soft Drugs vs Alcohol

[Lavindathar]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: quote: Originally posted by Lavindathar: I believe that they tax cigarettes. Tobacco is natural. Cigarettes are not. Cigarettes are made in a factory. Tobacco is grown in a field. Do you follow? Hence why tobacco is a hell of a lot cheaper than cigs. It's why people make "rollies". Dnt pay tax.

Actually they could tax marijuana, and they do tax tobacco. They also tax "natural" fruits, vegetables, grains, lumber, straw, etc.

Maybe you mean, they couldn't tax what you could grow in your backyard? That's probably true as long as you don't grow enough to sell. That's what they tax. The sale of naturally grown products. They tax the grower when he sells to the wholesaler, and they tax the wholesaler when he sells to the retailer, and they tax the retailer when he sells to the consumer.

The government could make huge amounts of money taxing marijuana sales. BTW, the majority of people who make "rollies" buy the tobacco. I'm from the North Carolina, the tobacco growing capital of the world, and I'm from a county were tobacco is the number one agricultural product, and I don't know one person under the age of 60 who "rolls" their own.[/QUOTE]Isn't that they can only tax it on Export or Import....still making weed untaxable unless it is brought in from abroad.

Same with tobacco, only imported is taxed.

[MILAMBER]

Pretty funny article on The Onion. Kinda ties in with the conversation.

Originally posted by Pangur Ban: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: BUT....if a person injurs themself thru the use of these products I think they should be exempt from collecting any social welfare from the state. I don't want my tax dollars going to support weak willed addicts or supplying medical care for them because they CHOSE to use substances that are harmful

MagiK, in an ideal world I would agree with your comments 100%. Re tax dollars, AFAIK, much more money in Australia is spent on the effects of smoking - health costs, etc, than the money gained from taxes on tobacco.

The trouble is, people are far from 'ideal'. I don't think there is a single human activity or activity that is not subject to misuse or abuse in some way.

If you were to take your line of reasoning to the next step, would you deny government funded health benefits to persons who became ill because they had an "unhealthy" lifestyle, if they CHOSE to eat the wrong foods in excess?

Its just too hard to decide where the dividing line should be, as to what is acceptable, and what is not.[/QUOTE]Actually Im against federally funded anything except roads, armies, navys, air forces and marines....ok and national infrastructure type things like dams and power plants etc. If you want anything else I think it is up to you to EARN it and not expect everyone else to pitch in and give it to you for free, much less to have the government confiscate your money so they can give it to someone else. It is NOT the job of the federal government to be a nanny, a saftey net, or a charity provider. I know this might surprise some on here...but the constitution was put into place to limit the government and what it does...over the years our generosity as a people has driven us to the sorry state of affairs we are in now...the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Originally posted by fable: Gods, that's twice now I've agreed with Magik. I need to see a good physician, or maybe an exorcist.

I think I may faint!

I think one thing above all others should have been learned from the failure of Prohibition....IT DOESNT WORK! it is hideously expensive, costs lives and is a waste of time and money.

[quote]Originally posted by Nydlari:

I would take the other end of MagiK's approach: Legalize and tax, then use the revenue from these taxes to fund universal health care for everyone so that the people using the majority of the health care resources pay the health care bill. .

Universal health Care doesnt work...any where. Because you have de-coupled the market forces and the laws of supply and demand you end up with lousey service, long long waits and at best a mediocre product. A product wich will have costs spiraling through the roof or have the quality plumet. Having many Canadians as friends from my military days, I know that when they need immediate serious health care and can afford it..they bypass the canadian socialized medicne to come to the states for treatment...this is a HUGE situation. It rivals the trips to mexico people here in the states make to buy perscription drugs at a lower cost.

EDIT: I don't mean to be picking on the Canadian system here, it is just the one I am most familiar with personally, I noted a statistic once that said there were only something like 6 MRI machines in all of canada...I know we have that many in just the state I live in...or more,
The european socialized medical systems I have heard about also seem to fall far short of the standard of care that is common in the USA..I will say however that HMO's are ruining that as well so, who know...there is no good answer maybe.

[ 04-01-2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Nydlari]

Originally posted by MagiK: Actually Im against federally funded anything except roads, armies, navys, air forces and marines....ok and national infrastructure type things like dams and power plants etc.

You also left out law enforcement. And beyond that, you are correct: The rich white males who wrote the constitution never wanted a system that would allow anyone born into a poor or non-white family to have a chance to succeed.

Every child born into a poor family over the age of 3 should have to work to earn their food, basic health care, and whatever education they can squeeze in during their 12 hour work day. Then this country would be such a better place to live. Full of uneducated, deseased, angry peasants. What a wonderful utopia.

[Nydlari]

Originally posted by MagiK: Having many Canadians as friends from my military days, I know that when they need immediate serious health care and can afford it..they bypass the canadian socialized medicne to come to the states for treatment...this is a HUGE situation. It rivals the trips to mexico people here in the states make to buy perscription drugs at a lower cost. I noted a statistic once that said there were only something like 6 MRI machines in all of canada...I know we have that many in just the state I live in...or more, The european socialized medical systems I have heard about also seem to fall far short of the standard of care that is common in the USA..I will say however that HMO's are ruining that as well so, who know...there is no good answer maybe.

Tis kinda odd what you say about Canadian health care. Living pretty darn close to the border, I know quite a few Canadians from both work and school, and whenever they get sick, even if it's an emergency, they hop in the car to drive the 4 hours back home just to see a doctor and not pay the outragious cost they'd incure here.

As for the stat on number of MRIs, what does that really mean? Canada has a fraction of the population of the US, of course they are going to have less of everything.

If you want a really cool statistic, check out the infant mortality rates for the US and Cuba. That's a telling statistic: The "Most powerful nation in the world" can't compete with an embargo hampered third world nation when it comes to keeping babies alive. Nice health care system we got here. Like everything else in this country it's focused in keeping wealthy white males alive with expensive MRI equipment and ignores poor infants who only need cheap vacinations and proper nutrition.

Originally posted by Nydlari: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Actually Im against federally funded anything except roads, armies, navys, air forces and marines....ok and national infrastructure type things like dams and power plants etc.

You also left out law enforcement. And beyond that, you are correct: The rich white males who wrote the constitution never wanted a system that would allow anyone born into a poor or non-white family to have a chance to succeed.

Every child born into a poor family over the age of 3 should have to work to earn their food, basic health care, and whatever education they can squeeze in during their 12 hour work day. Then this country would be such a better place to live. Full of uneducated, deseased, angry peasants. What a wonderful utopia.[/QUOTE]Actually I did leave out law enforcement and education, those I can see being the purview of the Federal Government. As for the rest of your post, all I can say, is that if you are unable to succeed in this country then you are not fit to survive anywhere on the planet. My barber is a turkish immigrant who came here with nothing and he is doing wonderfully in his chosen field, Im dating a Portugese lady who came to this country with nothing and now she will never have to work again as long as she lives (thanks to her deceased husband succeeding with just hard work and no education), she goes to school full time because in her own country it is very hard for women to become educated. For being started by a bunch of bigoted rich white guys we did ok. ...now if we can just undo some of the BS that is passing as a benign government that is actually ripping out the foundations of freedom that got us here...we should be ok.

[ 04-01-2002, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Nydlari: quote: Originally posted by MagiK:

Tis kinda odd what you say about Canadian health care. Living pretty darn close to the border, I know quite a few Canadians from both work and school, and whenever they get sick, even if it's an emergency, they hop in the car to drive the 4 hours back home just to see a doctor and not pay the outragious cost they'd incure here.

As for the stat on number of MRIs, what does that really mean? Canada has a fraction of the population of the US, of course they are going to have less of everything.

If you want a really cool statistic, check out the infant mortality rates for the US and Cuba. That's a telling statistic: The "Most powerful nation in the world" can't compete with an embargo hampered third world nation when it comes to keeping babies alive. Nice health care system we got here. Like everything else in this country it's focused in keeping wealthy white males alive with expensive MRI equipment and ignores poor infants who only need cheap vacinations and proper nutrition.[/QUOTE]Heh, you seem to be really anti-white people in your post. Near as I can tell there are just as many black, asian and hispanics in the MRi clinics when I made all thee of my visits over the years, I also know many blacks, asians, portugese and europeans who have succeeded just fine in this country without the benefit of being rich or white. I also know that these people who have succeeded on their own merits without robbing the "rich" to redistribute wealth to them detest the whole idea of the government giving people money for not working.

I don't know the situation of the "Canadians" you seem to associate with, all I can say that it isnt the case with the ones I know who are Military. I also know quite a few who were not Military having lived in both Maine and Alaska. I do know that if they are going back to canada for emergency treatment that is their choice to risk their lives for a wait that may be too long for critical care.

If it is so wonderful, I think you might just want to emigrate to Canada [img]smile.gif[/img] I love Canada by the way, lovely place to hike, hunt and fish.

[ 04-01-2002, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe]

pot being legal in our lifetime in the US is not going to happen. there is too much money made selling it, and too much money being spent trying to prevent it. Think of all the jobs this creates for both sides of the coin. The government couldnt stand to lose that kind of employment. If it were to be legalized ever the first step would be decriminalization of it, basically for all nonviolent offenders, they would just get a fine( no jail time). several rich and influencial people, that i know of are working on this right now. so root them on, and keep your fingers crossed if you are in favor of it.