Static party

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

I really don't like changing classes during the game. I know there
are advantages but I guess I havn't played enough to learn them.
What are some suggestions if I just wanted to go with three or four in
my party (whether I switch classes or just them)?

[Nightowl2]

I usually didn't change class, either. If you want a short party, I suggest two good tanks, a cleric and a mage. You may want to start one fighter as a thief for some of the thief skills, or maybe have a ninja or bard instead of one fighter.

Nightowl2

[Wereboar]

Very easy 4 character party is fighter - thief - mage - priest.
No need to switch thief to something else, he'll do very good later with his backstab ability.

Another one is fighter - bishop - ranger - bard.

In general, you need at least one tank, access to mage and priest spells, and someone who can pick locks and traps.
Well, you don't really need the tank. There is guardian angel and stone skin. But it helps.
You don't really need lock&trap skill. You can use some items early to get 10-20% skill, and knock-knock later.
For the mage/priest spellcasters, pure spellcasters are better than hybrids. A level 10 mage can cast missile shild at a much higher level than a level 10 samurai. When you meet those deathsting apusses, you'll notice the difference.

[EEWorzelle]

In earlier games the benefits of changing classes were so powerful that it was difficult to ignore. In this game there is no such huge advantage and keeping characters one class throughout the game is a good choice.

Some players like to make their characters something else for one round at or near the beginning of the game, to get a skill their main character will not be able to get or increase. This is often used in combination with training that skill, in a repetitive way, during that one level when it can increase. I never do this, but it is possible.

I usually play large parties, six plus RPCs, so will not answer the party question. I'm glad Wereboar answered that one for you. He is the expert I would ask about such parties.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Not to open a can of worms, but what races are most suited to the
Fighter-Thief-Priest-Mage party?

[Wereboar]

Well, my party was:

fighter - lizardman. The best race for this job.

thief - hobbit. Hobbits have great stats, and i think it fits for role-playing reasons.

mage - faerie. Faeries can't use most weapons and armor, but mages can't anyway. And the spell point regenerations helps a lot early (shorter rests, less monster respawn)

priest - gnome. IIRC i just looked for a race that maxes piety and intelligence fast, without too bad stats otherwise.

Some side notes:
I wanted to use thieves daggers with the thief, so he won't be able to use a ranged weapon. So i used a sling early to build up his throwing skill, and used powders and sticks later. Was surprisingly efficient for a long while.
The fighter learned sword and mace&flail, for the Fang / Diamond eyes combo.
The priest used a shield to improve AC (and some kind of bullwhip), together with a sling.
The mage used no weapon at all.

Setup: fighter + thief in front, priest center, mage back. This way, i can melee monsters with extended reach (like some crabs), and my mage won't get hit. If neccessary, moved the mage to the center and the priest to one side during combat.
BTW, moving your characters around during combat is very important with small parties. Thief gets badly hit? Move him back. Next round, tell him to heal and move to the front again.

[EEWorzelle]

Wereboar and Farseer,

Just one note on the Priest. All of my parties so far have had a Priest in them and I agree Intelligence, and the Powercast it unlocks are vital to get the most out of your Priest.

What has been surprising to me is that Piety is not all that important. Even leaving it at the starting level, Divinity skill rapidly rises above 100 anyway, and Priest spells depend upon Divinity, not Piety (unlike other RPGs, notably the D&D ones). The Priest skills such as Magic Realms will rise to to their max in normal play, even without putting points in them at level-up and without making Piety high. There is a direct benefit to Spell Points (0.2 percent per point of Piety) but it is so small that it doesn't matter. I know it is counter-intuitive, but I now consider Piety secondary in importance, at most, for a Priest.

On the other hand, going for Strength for the awesome Powerstrike capability or Senses for Eagle Eye beautifully complement a Priests already strong spell capabilities. Piety can be filled in later for it's small effects and/or role playing reasons if desired. Either way the Priest will be fabulous with spells... that's easy.

I guess this is one of those "worms" Variol referred to. I haven't played a Priest in a smaller party yet, but I would guess this would be even more important there. It's something to consider.

[ 05-20-2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

[Wereboar]

Well, my priests are usually in the back, using a sling and a whip, but mostly casting. Thus i don't see the need for better fighting stats. In a small party without strong characters, i might go for strengt, for the carrying capacity. In some games, i went for speed, but i think it wasn't worth it. Now i usually go for piety, for the additional spell points, and for iron will.

I usually play expert ironman, and i recall situations where all other characters had been killed by death cloud or death wish, with the priest still alive. Iron will is usually a very small advantage, but for ironman, its handy sometimes.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Could you explain the Fang/Diamond Eyes combo. please.
The new party (Fighter, Rogue, Priest, Mage) are just leaving the
Monestary and heading for the main road and doing well so far.

[Wereboar]

Diamond eyes is just the best secondary weapon available for fighter types. High damage, good ko chance. And it's a mace (mace and flail).

The best primary weapons for a fighter (excluding the ultra-rare light sword) include Bloodlust (early), Fang, and The Mauler. The Mauler is nice in combination with Diamond Eyes, since its a mace too, and has a mace&flail bonus. But Fang does more damage, and has a good critical chance.

It's also possible to use a shield instead of a secondary weapon. But when there's a good weapon availabel, i perfer dual wield. There aren't that many good secondary weapons around, aside from samurai or ninja only items. So i usually learn mace&flail with one character to use Diamond Eyes. With more fighter-Type characters in the party, i let one specialize in swords, and another one in maces. With only this 4 characters, the fighter gets to use both.